$2790 for Spring certification? Are there any alternatives?

[Robert Heath]

I just had a chat session with the VMware people. In order to become Spring certified, you apparently have to take one of THEIR courses, which costs $2790. Does anyone know of an alternative? Do people in India pay those kind of prices?

[Nam Ha Minh]

Oops! ~$3000 for that certification?

[Robert Heath]

Nam Ha Minh wrote:Oops! ~$3000 for that certification?

That is the price here in the US. I doubt that the students in Bangalore pay that kind of price. How could they?

[Nam Ha Minh]

well, for me that's too expensive. Only the certified guys can answer your question.

[Robert Heath]

I am still curious about the charge for these classes in India. It would be a shame if US STEM workers are penalized for having to be trained in the US.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Expenses - like the room to rent for the training - would be less, so of course the course would be less. But it's not like you are going to fly to India for a training course.

The alternative is to not get certified in Spring and just learn it on your own. I haven't seen a job ads that require a Spring certification. I learned a lot in the class. The cert was a side effect of taking the class for me; it wasn't the motivation.

[Luke Kolin]

Robert Heath wrote:It would be a shame if US STEM workers are penalized for having to be trained in the US.

I suspect most US STEM workers don't pay much attention to certification.

Cheers!

Luke

[Robert Heath]

Actually, I know several people who would like to be certified here in the US. The restricting factor for certification for them is the cost of the REQUIRED course. VMware is responsible for the requirement. If you don't pay VMware $2790, you don't take the course. If you don't take the course, you are NOT QUALIFIED to be certified here in the US. As I understand it, one of VMware's so-called "partners" offers the required courses in India.

[Nam Ha Minh]

Could you explain what is "US STEM worker"?
I think the price may vary, depending on countries.

[Luke Kolin]

Robert Heath wrote:Actually, I know several people who would like to be certified here in the US. The restricting factor for certification for them is the cost of the REQUIRED course.

I think you're missing my point - what's the value in certification? I've yet to see a single employer or hiring manager care one whit about certification. They place far more value on experience and the ability to talk intelligently about the technology.

Cheers!

Luke

[Jaikiran Pai]

Robert Heath wrote:I am still curious about the charge for these classes in India.

How about checking with VMWare?

[Robert Heath]

Jaikiran Pai wrote:

Robert Heath wrote:I am still curious about the charge for these classes in India.

How about checking with VMWare?

I didn't miss your point at all. I understand it well. Your point is very clear. But the topic of this thread is about how to get the certification without paying the $2790. Unless you address that issue, it is you that misses the point.

[Robert Heath]

Jaikiran Pai wrote:

Robert Heath wrote:I am still curious about the charge for these classes in India.

How about checking with VMWare?

I did. VMware denied that they have any role in setting prices for "partner" training sessions. Certainly VMware knows the prices for certifications in other countries, but they are not going to answer the questions about pricing in India. Those questions seem to be a very uncomfortable topic with the people at VMware.

[Jayesh A Lalwani]

You know what? Apples cost a lot more in the US than in India too. That pisses me off... And don't get me started on the price of mangoes..

As with everything else their pricing is done to maximize their profit in any given market. That's the price you pay for living in a free market economy. US developers are going to benefit a lot more from getting the same spring training as their Indian counterparts. US developers get to gain more, so VMware can charge more

Remember that VMware provides spring for free. Training is the only way they make money. They provide free learning tools on their website. You don't have to get that certification. They don't stop you from using spring if you don't get that certificate. However, if you do then, $3000 for certification is not that much considering that once you become a spring expert you get to earn that money back in couple of months.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Hmm Apples. I bet pies cost more in the US than in India too!

Seriously though, I think we all agree that the things cost different amounts in different locations and that's life. The alternative is to not take the class/test if you don't want to pay for it. I don't think there is anything more to discuss here.

[Jayesh A Lalwani]

On the other hand I bet meat pies cause a lot more in India.

On the other other hand, mutton samosas are much easier to get in India, and those things are much tastier, so it's all good.

[Robert Heath]

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Hmm Apples. I bet pies cost more in the US than in India too!

Seriously though, I think we all agree that the things cost different amounts in different locations and that's life. The alternative is to not take the class/test if you don't want to pay for it. I don't think there is anything more to discuss here.

Yep, clearly there is no one to step up and defend the integrity of VMware's certification process in this forum. Since the no one wants to take the position of defense, the topic is covered.

Obviously, I knew the answers to the questions before I asked them. Plus, I also agree with the opinion that taking this course in order to get trained/certified in Spring is foolish. The obvious option is to train yourself. Apparently nobody, especially future employers, takes the training/certification seriously.

I just thought I would give somebody in the forum a chance to support the legitimacy of the Spring training and certification. Nobody seems to be willing to do that. I would have hoped that at least one Spring advocate would have taken the plunge to defend VMware's integrity. My thanks to all of the contributors.

It would be nice to know the price of certification in India though. Certainly, VMware doesn't want to cough up that information.

[Jan Cumps]

Hi, you can't jump to conclusions because something is not posted. Maybe this post did not draw the attention of someone who is pro?

[Kathleen Angeles]

SpringSource has their scheduled upcoming courses worldwide in their website.

If the course is served by a third-party, and if it not in their website, I am sure that SpringSource will tell you which are the local agencies and their contact info. You can start at the Vmware SpringSource Certification Page.

For India, you might get lucky by googling for the course, and contact that course center.

In Singapore, the cost is the same.

-k

[SpringSource Certified Spring Professional - Practice Tests]
[FREE SpringSource Certified Spring Professional - Practice Tests]

[Robert Heath]

Kathleen Angeles wrote:SpringSource has their scheduled upcoming courses worldwide in their website.

If the course is served by a third-party, and if it not in their website, I am sure that SpringSource will tell you which are the local agencies and their contact info. You can start at the Vmware SpringSource Certification Page.

For India, you might get lucky by googling for the course, and contact that course center.

In Singapore, the cost is the same.

-k

[SpringSource Certified Spring Professional - Practice Tests]
[FREE SpringSource Certified Spring Professional - Practice Tests]

Before coming to here, obviously I went to their website, plus I engaged in a chat session, plus I called their office. I received basically the same answer there as here. Of course, nobody there openly said that the price was out of proportion in the chat session. I was just speaking with clerical workers. I thought that here someone with more insight could justify VMware's pricing structure. Of course there is NO JUSTIFICATION.

[Jayesh A Lalwani]

Of course the people on the phone are not going to know the decisions behind pricing. You will need to get hold of someone way up higher in the chain. Most companies do not let their pricing decisions to become public. I bet if you go to McDonalds store and ask them why a Big Mac meal costs 3 bucks, they are going to look at you funny

[Robert Heath]

Jayesh A Lalwani wrote:You know what? Apples cost a lot more in the US than in India too. That pisses me off... And don't get me started on the price of mangoes..

As with everything else their pricing is done to maximize their profit in any given market. That's the price you pay for living in a free market economy. US developers are going to benefit a lot more from getting the same spring training as their Indian counterparts. US developers get to gain more, so VMware can charge more

Remember that VMware provides spring for free. Training is the only way they make money. They provide free learning tools on their website. You don't have to get that certification. They don't stop you from using spring if you don't get that certificate. However, if you do then, $3000 for certification is not that much considering that once you become a spring expert you get to earn that money back in couple of months.

Yeah, yeah, I did NOT start this thread to get a superficial lecture on capitalism. The cost of living and production costs in India may justify the reduced cost of apples in India, but your argument does not apply to online training and certifications where the production costs for online training and certification is identical for India and the US.

As far as turning certification for US workers into a profit center and asking US students to shoulder development costs and global training costs for the rest of the world, you obviously have a point. What other defense would VMware have for excessive certification charges. Do they want to discourage US workers from seeking certification? If that is their goal, the response of people in this thread would indicate that VMware is successful achieving that result.

[Robert Heath]

Jan Cumps wrote:Hi, you can't jump to conclusions because something is not posted. Maybe this post did not draw the attention of someone who is pro?

I want to be proven wrong. That is why I am here. I want someone to prove that my impressions are incorrect. I want a Spring advocate to logically show that US students are not being gouged. I want a Spring advocate to demonstrate why Spring certification is worth the price of $2790. I want a Spring advocate to demonstrate that the costs for US students is identical to the cost for Indian students. But we all know that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

[Jayesh A Lalwani]

Not sure if you are familiar with how pricing works. For any given market and product, there is a price to demand curve. Decreasing the price increases demand. Increasing the prices, reduces demand. Profit = (price-cost)*demand. Since, demand is inversely proportional to profit, the profit curve looks like a bell curve, and the maximum profit lies somewhere between 0 and insanely-high-prices. Every company in this world uses this strategy to maximize their profit, whether it's Mcdonalds putting stuff on the dollar Menu or BMW selling $700K cars.

Since the costs and price-demand curve is going to be differrent in India, the pricing curve changes for India. They are maximizing their profit there too. It's just that the point at which they maximize their profit changes.

Yes, US workers are subsidizing development in Spring for everyone else in the world. That might look unfair, unless you consider that US workers are benefiting the most from Spring. In an ideal world, everything else being equal an US worker will be paid exactly the same as an Indian worker, in which case, VMware would charge everyone exactly the same. We don't live in an ideal world, US workers can afford to pay more, so VMware charges them more. It's as simple as that.

[Ulf Dittmer]

Since Robert -who posted the original question- seems to have arrived at a conclusion, I think there's little else that can usefully be said about this topic. I'm closing it.