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deepen Java skills or move to Python?

Yahya Elyasse
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Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

Hello,
I recently went through a job interview test where i was asked to work with tools such as maven , jboss and spring. i failed this test and suddenly i'm aware of my shortcomings regarding these java tools like spring , hibernate,maven ,jboss etc..
the fact is that i was working with high level frameworks such as www.playframework.org which abstracts most of these libraries and i didn't bothered to learn them in-depth. but after this failed job interview test i started to doubt and ask myself if i need to go back and sit down to learn more about maven , spring , hibernate ect..
I was preparing the move to Python when i got this job offer. and after i failed it i'm not sure if it is better to invest my time learning python indepth or is it better learning these other java frameworks and tools.

I have the feeling the java future will not be that bright under Oracle and i want to move to some technology that is great , isn't controlled by some big companies like oracle and with a bright future regarding jobs opportunities. it seems to me Python fits these criteria. However i need advice whether i should spend some time on those java frameworks or better spend it on Python learning.

thanks
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
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Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30796
    
157

If you are going to be applying for a Java job, you need to know Java well. Similarly if you say you worked with Java, you need to know it. If you just say you work with Play, you won't need that. But companies may not consider you.


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Yahya Elyasse
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Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:If you are going to be applying for a Java job, you need to know Java well. Similarly if you say you worked with Java, you need to know it. If you just say you work with Play, you won't need that. But companies may not consider you.

I know core java and many java libraries well. But i don't know why i didn't gave much attention to spring , hibernate and struts. it seems to be considered for a java enterprise position you absolutely need to master these frameworks as they are now standards. I made the mistake to jump right away to higher lever frameworks like Play and grails which seemed to be a wrong choice.

Andy Jack
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Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Yahya Elyasse wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:If you are going to be applying for a Java job, you need to know Java well. Similarly if you say you worked with Java, you need to know it. If you just say you work with Play, you won't need that. But companies may not consider you.

I know core java and many java libraries well. But i don't know why i didn't gave much attention to spring , hibernate and struts. it seems to be considered for a java enterprise position you absolutely need to master these frameworks as they are now standards. I made the mistake to jump right away to higher lever frameworks like Play and grails which seemed to be a wrong choice.


And to master frameworks like Spring, you need to be good at JSP and Servlets...Bear told me that. So, look into that too.


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Yahya Elyasse
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Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

Andy Jack wrote:
And to master frameworks like Spring, you need to be good at JSP and Servlets...Bear told me that. So, look into that too.

I know jsp ans servelets thanks. i said i master some advanced frameworks like playframework and grails. i think this means that my java web skills are not so mediocre as you believe.
Greg Charles
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Joined: Oct 01, 2001
Posts: 2854
    
  11

I'd like to see languages like Python and Ruby take off, but according to this ranking, they really aren't. I started studying both of them, and I think that gave me some perspective on programing in general. However, I've got a finite limit on my time and energy, and if I'm studying something just for fun and interest, there are hundreds of things I'd choose to study before another computer language.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61458
    
  67

I personally would not bank on Python being "the next big thing".


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Yahya Elyasse
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Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

java will continue to be popular but only in enterprise and corporate environments. Under oracle now java will continue to be adopted by large companies . but in the open source community java is visibly starting to decline. i can give you many examples of new startups in os choosing python and django as their development platform :
quora.com, OSQA,edx.org and many new popular web apps are now using python .
i cannot see another language being the next big thing beside Python : a beautiful, easy to use and free language.
will languages that run on the JVM will be the future? scala? Clojure? but they are not easy to learn languages (Scala is kind of academic programming langauge designed for academic research programming).
C# is kind of close to Java but it is a locked language designed for MS world only.
so what is the language which will gain momentum in say 10 or 15 years from now ? i can see Python is the candidate for such future.
Andy Jack
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Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Yahya Elyasse wrote:
Andy Jack wrote:
And to master frameworks like Spring, you need to be good at JSP and Servlets...Bear told me that. So, look into that too.

I know jsp ans servelets thanks. i said i master some advanced frameworks like playframework and grails. i think this means that my java web skills are not so mediocre as you believe.


sorry, i did not mean that your skills are mediocre. just added what bear told me.
Andy Jack
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Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Greg Charles wrote:I'd like to see languages like Python and Ruby take off, but according to this ranking, they really aren't. I started studying both of them, and I think that gave me some perspective on programing in general. However, I've got a finite limit on my time and energy, and if I'm studying something just for fun and interest, there are hundreds of things I'd choose to study before another computer language.


How can one come to a conclusion based on some random ranking ? I see a lot of jobs for python. It may not be the next thing, but its good to know. Then, you can apply for more jobs.
Andy Jack
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Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Yahya Elyasse wrote:java will continue to be popular but only in enterprise and corperate envirnments. Under oracle now java will continue to be adopted by large companies . but in the open source community java is visibly starting to decline. i can give you many examples of new starups in os chosing python and django as their development platform : quora edx and many poular web apps are now using python . i cannot see another language being the next big thing beside this beautifull easy and free language. scala? Closjour? but they are not easy to learn languges. and c# is a locked langugae designed for ms world only. so whaty is the language which will gain momuntum in say 10 or 15 years from now?


Is there anyway we can find out why the new companies chose python over Java ? One thing i read - you can do the same thing in py with much less code as compared to java and create throwaway prototypes quickly. Don't know if this factor is important for startups.
Greg Charles
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 01, 2001
Posts: 2854
    
  11

Andy Jack wrote:I see a lot of jobs for python.


Do you? Where?
Yahya Elyasse
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

Greg Charles wrote:
Andy Jack wrote:I see a lot of jobs for python.


Do you? Where?

Any Software Engineer position offer will mostly mean Python skills are in demand.
Yahya Elyasse
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 510

Andy Jack wrote:
Is there anyway we can find out why the new companies chose python over Java ? One thing i read - you can do the same thing in py with much less code as compared to java and create throwaway prototypes quickly. Don't know if this factor is important for startups.

Companies are afraid from Oracle (Unfriendly and Money Machine corp) monopolizing the destiny of Java. They don't want their IT infrastructure fate to be under the mercy of a money machine corp like Oracle.
They prefer using a technology that is open , with a friendly community contributing to the technology ecosystem growth ; and not controlled by the tyranny of one big entity . Python has all these criteria and that's why companies start to invest in Python more and move away from Oracle Java.
Andy Jack
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Greg Charles wrote:
Andy Jack wrote:I see a lot of jobs for python.


Do you? Where?


Standard job sites. Its certainly not as much as Java or PHP.
Andy Jack
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Yahya Elyasse wrote:
Andy Jack wrote:
Is there anyway we can find out why the new companies chose python over Java ? One thing i read - you can do the same thing in py with much less code as compared to java and create throwaway prototypes quickly. Don't know if this factor is important for startups.

Companies are afraid from Oracle (Unfriendly and Money Machine corp) monopolizing the destiny of Java. They don't want their IT infrastructure fate to be under the mercy of a money machine corp like Oracle.
They prefer using a technology that is open , with a friendly community contributing to the technology ecosystem growth ; and not controlled by the tyranny of one big entity . Python has all these criteria and that's why companies start to invest in Python more and move away from Oracle Java.


Sounds plausible. But, i don't know if this opinion is shared by most people in the industry.
 
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