Ulf Dittmer wrote:Am I the only one who interprets what william said to mean that he is wondering the same thing, i.e. who those people are? In other words, the question Jesper and Bear are asking of william should instead be asked of the original poster.
Philip Perry wrote:You want my honest opinion of why so many young guys are complaining about Java and singing the praises of things like Ruby and Python? Here it is:
Java is a really, really BIG language. Oh, the core language is very small, and easy to learn, but knowing the core language is just the beginning. You've seen the want ads for Java programmers... A Java programmer is expected to know a whole lot of stuff. Core Java, NetBeans and/or Eclipse, how to write and use servlets, JSPs, probably taglibs, you're expected to know at least one or two frameworks, and when you get to your technical interview if you don't at least know a few design patterns and how to write a sort routine on demand; the alpha geek running the interview will give you the stink-eye. Also, Java's used in a lot of companies, and they tend to be demanding about experience. They want four years of this, four years of that... It's hard to break into this particular career.
Worse, most companies don't want to train anybody; they expect you to know everything on day 1 these days. How's a college kid going to get his foot in the door? He's got no experience, nothing really to put on his resume to get it past the H.R. drone scanning the resume pile on autopilot... I've been doing Java for seven years, and I feel locked out because I've always written my own JDBC at work and now I find out everyone's using Hibernate and employers want you to have four years' experience in it. D'oh! Why is it always "four years"? Seriously.
Anyway, all these young guys are looking up at this big mountain, this big, freaky mountain with sharp crags sticking out and vultures circling around it, and maybe even a yeti looking down at them and licking its lips. Way up at the top, there's a castle, and it looks great, but dang. All the way up there? Past the yeti?
Then they look over to their left, and there's this grassy little hill with a little cobblestone path on it leading up to a simple little house. They look at the castle; they look at the house. They look at one, then the other, then back again. Finally they say "Nope! Nuh-uh. I'm going to go climb that little hill over there and call it a day." So instead of trying to learn how to do large-scale enterprise development, they settle for the scripting languages and do web pages. It's a living, and they're happy, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But what's *really* going on is they're taking the easy path instead of the hard one, and telling everyone the easy path is soooooo much better. They weren't scared of the yeti, no way, they just like cottages.
Brian Lim wrote: And of course once startups mature, they inevitably move to Java.
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:.... and most programs are written in C. People hate on Java because of the JVM
I completely reject your first assertion. Last time I checked, most programs were still written in Fortran, because it has a 30 year head start over even C.
People who "hate on" java because of the JVM are, at best, uninformed. The JVM is the best thing about Java, and will long out live Java the language. The JVM lets folks write clear, simple code that performs as well as the best, hand optimized C -- which can't be read or understood by anyone because its so optimized.
The secret of how to be miserable is to constantly expect things are going to happen the way that they are "supposed" to happen.
You can have faith, which carries the understanding that you may be disappointed. Then there's being a willfully-blind idiot, which virtually guarantees it.
Oracle Certified Professional: Java SE 6 Programmer && Oracle Certified Expert: (JEE 6 Web Component Developer && JEE 6 EJB Developer)
Dieter Quickfend wrote:whenever python fanboys start lecturing about how python is better, challenge them to a contest ...
No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
chris webster wrote:FWIW I think recommending Java EE as a golden hammer is just as pointless as declaring "nobody wants to use Java". Surely it's far better to just use the right tool for the job?
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:
chris webster wrote:FWIW I think recommending Java EE as a golden hammer is just as pointless as declaring "nobody wants to use Java". Surely it's far better to just use the right tool for the job?
Within reason of course. Having 100 hammers .25 inches different in size is silly .
No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
Stephan van Hulst wrote: All of a sudden, my code is full of interfaces and factories and stuff, so people can drop in extensions that they will probably never write.
I had the same problem when I first learned of inheritance. Suddenly everything had to be in some kind of hierarchy, and I saw connections where there were none.
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs. |