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Webgain vs JBuilder .....Which IDE plz...?  RSS feed

 
Greenhorn
Posts: 22
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Hi all,
Can any one who have knowledge on both IDEs tell me which one is better. because we are planning to buy one. Plase help me in this regard.
Thanks in advance,
vs prapoorna
 
Sheriff
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All of these IDEs are complex products with many features, limitations, assumptions and expected ways of working, so there is no "best".
Please tell us a bit more about the sort of projects your team plans to use such an IDE with. The more information we have, the more we might be able to help with recommending one or other of the above. Or it might be that something else (NetBeans, Eclipse, IDEA, TextPad ...) would suit you better.
 
VS Prapoorna
Greenhorn
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Hi Frank,
thanks alot for the quick reply. coming to our project, we are going to execuate a project involving java,jsp,ejb on weblogic6.1 and its a typical project involving invoices,orders etc.,
As the time frame for the project is too short we are looking for a good enterprise development tool for cutting down the development time and integration. So we aer in search of a good IDE which can help us in this scenario.
thanks and regards,
vs prapoorna.
 
Frank Carver
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OK. I hope some of the others here will be able to add their opinions, but my gut feeling would be not to bother with an IDE at all. I'd spend the time and effort getting to grips with Ant.
It seems to me that what you need most of all from your description is a tool to manage building, testing, version control and deployment of a variety of technologies. This need not be built into your editor :- use whetever editors you are already comfortable with, and share a build system (such as Ant) and a source code repository (such as CVS, Perforce, or whatever.)
To deliver a solid product in a "too short" timescale, you need to do your unit testing as soon as possible, ideally "test first", so that nothing is built without a unit test. This will be invaluable to make sure you don't break one feature when adding another. Whatever system you finally choose will need to make building and running unit tests as simple as possible, ideally automatically as part of every compilation and deployment.
I recommend JUnit, which integrates well with Ant and Eclipse, as well as many other build systems and IDEs
Whetever system you choose will also need to make working with a version control system as painless and error free as possible. The easier a VCS is to use, the more often people will use it, and the less time will be spent worrying about what changed where, or how to get back the code which used to work.
Can you answer another question for me? Is there any particular reason you have limited your question to the two IDEs you mention? If either or both of these have some "killer" feature which you need to the exclusion of all else, then this might also affect recommendations. If not, please also consider at least Apache Ant, IBM Eclipse, and IntelliJ IDEA.
 
author
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Frank, I fully aggree!
BTW, the mentioning of EJBs makes me shiver... If you don't have much experience in using them, your project already is late, IME...
 
Greenhorn
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I started with the Webgain way back when it was VisualCafe (VC) 2.5 and have used it up though 4.1 with a brief project on 4.5. VC has a number of strong points and a number of weak points. Its debugger, with its visual access (tree structure) to all objects and values while steping is still top notch. Its GUI layout tool is suffering from an outdated 1.1.8 engine. Since you won't be needing the GUI, this should not be a big factor. (BTW, I now use JBuilder when I need a GUI layout tool then switch back to VC for debuging)
For your application, it looks like Webgain Studio (Big Bucks, but still worth it for the time being) is a no brainer because it provides integration with your Application Server.
As I have had the good fortune(or should it be mis-fortune) to complete a reasonable sized distributed application with EJBs for the back side business logic, I can echo the previous comment regarding schedule. Unless it is extremely trivial, there is a LOT of interaction between the components involved and it will take a LOT of time to get it correct under all possible inputs.
Be sure to take time up front to layout the architecture, defining transactions and request/response messaging, and selecting components before you start coding.
 
Sheriff
Posts: 4313
Android IntelliJ IDE Java
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I vote for IntelliJ IDEA -- VERY light weight, VERY customizable, does great Refactoring.
That's what most all of us use here for our development
 
VS Prapoorna
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hi all,
Thanks alot for your valuable suggestions. Our cclient has given us options only of these two IDEs. I need to suggest my management which IDE to choose. Your kind suggestions helped me alot in arriving at a conclusion, and i think i'll go with Webgain. Should anybody have more suggestions, always welcome.
With lot many Thanks & Regards,
VS Prapoorna
 
Ilja Preuss
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Originally posted by vs prapoorna:
Our client has given us options only of these two IDEs.


Huh? Why is your client in the position to decide about your tools?
Most often I don't tell the plumber which pliers to use... :roll:
 
Jessica Sant
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Android IntelliJ IDE Java
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This might effect your decison a bit:
WebGain to Exit Tools, Oracle to buy TopLink


DATE: 06/05/2002

By Gavin Clarke
WebGain Inc is selling its TopLink Java/database connectivity business to
application server wannabe Oracle Corp in a deal that also sees the Java IDE
leader exit the tools market.
A WebGain company source told ComputerWire a deal would be announced during the
next few days which would see Redwood Shores, California-based Oracle buy
TopLink along with 90 engineering, sales and support staff.
TopLink maps between Enterprise Java Beans (EJBs) and relational databases,
speeding both application server performance and increasing developer
productivity. The source did not disclose the deal's value but said: "We made a
lot of money."
The deal will also means webGain will halt all development and sales of its
market-leading IDEs Visual Caf´┐Ż and WebGain Studio - the latest version of
which is currently in beta. WebGain hopes the IDEs will be picked-up by the
open source community, carrying the product forward.
WebGain will instead support existing versions of its IDEs and live off
licensing and intellectual property, the source said.
The company has judged competition in the Java tools market to be too fierce,
generating low margins, to continue in-house development. More than half of
revenues were ploughed into research and development - manned by 120 staff.
"We are going to stop R&D and give that to the developer community. We will
continue to license and support contracts and make some money on that. The
operation will become a license business," he said.
"It was more efficient to give the IDE away and sell the base product rather
than run a 120-person engineering group who weren't doing anything better than
the community."
WebGain has approximately 100,000 users and led the market for Java IDEs in
2000. The company had 22% market share in 2000, $44.7m in revenue, placing it
ahead of number two Borland Software Corp on 19% market share and $40m
according to IDC. The analyst said it would release new figures for 2001 during
the next 60 days.
The news threatens to hurt some partners, especially San Jose, California-based
BEA Systems Inc. webGain has partnered on WebLogic Workshop, due in July, and
supports WebLogic Application Server providing an end-to-end development
environment boasting Java Server Page support, Unified Modeling Language, XML
authoring and quality testing in WebStudio 4.5.2. BEA was unable to comment.
WebGain is believed to have been in internal discussion for several months over
how to carry its business forward. The company modeled approximately 40
scenarios but - like all Java tools vendors - has been squeezed by reduced
corporate spending power. The source said webGain was in danger of becoming
split as an IDE and runtime business - with TopLink - while the majority of
research and development went into IDEs.
WebGain's Oracle deal developed after the database giant approached the ISV
about a TopLink reseller deal some six months ago. WebGain felt its long-term
future was threatened by such a deal, as Oracle was expected to develop its own
competitor to TopLink and edge webGain out of the market.
An Oracle spokesperson said she was unaware of any deal and webGain was
unavailable for contact at time of going to press.

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1170
Eclipse IDE Hibernate Ubuntu
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I have both. I bought VC but I have the JBuilder free version.
For GUI design their is NO QUESTION JBuilder is far superior. I wont go into detail but I dug deep and pointed out several bugs to Symantec and then webgain which to this day they still fail to fix. These are show stoppers too. Like having your selected values changing (like modal=TRUE). Plus creating your own GUI classes and using them with the GUI creater is just trash in VC. You can manage in JBuilder quite well but its not perfect. Their are many other reasons...
For debugging I dont recall which performs better. I didn't have many problems with VC that were not related to GUI so I suppose it can compete well.
I would like to hover over a variable and see its value which I cant in JB. I like that JB is made from java and as a java programmer you can usually figure out what the bugs are. You cant really do that in VC.
Anyone know of a GUI designer? If I had one I could stop using IDEs like these people keep trying to say is a good idea and I still havent found reason to do so...
 
With a little knowledge, a cast iron skillet is non-stick and lasts a lifetime.
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