Real programmers..

[Pradeep bhatt]

My ex boss always says - "Real progarmmers use Textpad".
Can you guys please comment.

[Jeroen de Wolf]

Then I wish you good luck in programming EJB interfaces and RMIC code in textpad!

[Lasse Koskela]

Actually, the cliche goes: "real programmers use vi"...
Note that this statement has never been anything more than a sarcastic saying used to refer to the ancient "I can code a for loop in Assembly faster than you can" complex.

[Pradeep bhatt]

I have mentioned "ex".. We had used ant

[Pradeep bhatt]

"real programmers use vi"...

What about Windows system?

[Lasse Koskela]

What about Windows system?

"Real programmers use Linux/UNIX/etc"...

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:

"Real programmers use Linux/UNIX/etc"...

That is sad. I do not use Linux/Unix etc

[Harjot Narula]

Real Programmer neither codes in vi nor in textpad
He uses Google to search for the code.

[Jim Toy]

Real programmers use punchcards.
There is a somewhat valid point to be made on the "Real Programmers use Textpad". The Pragmatic Programmers http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com Andy Hunt and Dave Thomas tout the virtues of plain text. Simply...plain text endures. Furthermore if you can find an editor that is extendable, that editor can be used for a variety of languages.
That being said, a "Smart Programmer" will leverage stylized tools to increase productivy.
So a Devloper has to ask themselves, am I willing to train myself to productivly use single purpose tools? Or use a development environment that reduces the learning curve?

[Leslie Chaim]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

What about Windows system?

Here's vi for Windows.

[Ilja Preuss]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
My ex boss always says - "Real progarmmers use Textpad".
Can you guys please comment.

"What do you care more about - wether I am a 'real programmer', or wether I am as productive as I could be?"

[Charles Hasegawa]

Well, I guess real programmers:
- Never have typos that cause compile errors
- Never need to run their code in debuggers (its much faster to use System.out.println when you really need to debug).
- Never need code assist, as they have memorized the entire Java API (plus its much faster to look up the correct signatures in the JavaDoc anyway).
- Are able to keep the imports for each class accurate (see last item).
- Never need to refactor/rename anything in their code.
- Have loads of extra time (due to above factors) to manually code accessors for all their JavaBeans.
- Are able to scan large .java files, which they did not write, and find each method that they are looking for quickly.
I have a lot of respect for all the "real programmers" out there that still use emacs, vi, textpad, or whatever non-tool text editor you prefer. Your dedication and ability to be productive using tools I could never be productive with is inspiring.
[ September 23, 2003: Message edited by: Charles Hasegawa ]

[Pradeep bhatt]

What do you care more about wether I am a 'real programmer', or wether I am as productive as I could be?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to be both.
[ September 23, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

[Lasse Koskela]

I'm anxiously waiting for someone to come up with assembly languages and hex editors...
Seriously, the answer is (once again) "right tool for the job". I think we all agree to that?

[Michael Zalewski]

How about
Real programmers *could* use TextPad, if they wanted to.

[Juan Rolando Prieur-Reza]

Very funny, wranglers
Why not take a 180 and look at it from a Star-Trek point of view...
Computer, activate the Emergency Holographic Programmer and gimme
a nice cup of java, Earl Gray, hot! and so forth

[Bhushan Jawle]

[Jeroen Wenting]

Real programmers IMO use whichever tool is most appropriate from the ones available to them to get the job done.
Real programmers can use any tool effectively (if not necessarilly optimally) quickly after starting to use it and don't need to rely on wizards to generate code for them (but will use those wizards when available and appropriate for the task at hand).
Real programmers are not religious zealots who refuse to use any except a small subset of tools.

[Dave Hewy]

Maybe someone can define what a "real programmer" is ?
I use whatever tool makes me most productive. As I do this for a living I need to do as much as possible in as little time as possible, otherwise I might find myself unemployed!
Dave

[David Attard]

Its dumb to say you should still use textpad / vi. For those that are still coding in TextPad "HELLLOOOOOO", there are things out there that make your life easier. I mean we buy the latest hardware when we can, so why shouldn't it be the same with the tools we use to develop?
Real programmers use Eclipse Its free, and its good!

[Gustavo Adolpho Bonesso]

Real programmers do the job on the most efficient way. IDEs are fine to organize large projects.

[Ed Merks]

Real programmers can automate any task and that eventually includes the task of writing their code. How better to perform as a programmer than to use tools like EMF to do what is clearly the menial part of programming?
Getting back to the point about "real programmers"... I believe that they do indeed tend to have an obsession with some ancient form of editing. It is conceivable that Textpad may be what you heard, although I still tend to believe that this is a mistranslation of vi from the original Latin.

[Richard Teston]

"Real Programmer" IMHO are those programmer whose code can be read by both the processor and human, no matter what text editor or IDE they used.

[Jeroen de Wolf]

Real programmers compile their code inside their head and some even can do the translation of bytecode

[Pradeep bhatt]

Real programmers compile their code inside their head and some even can do the translation of bytecode

I would like to meet the real programmer who does this.

[Adrian Yan]

A real programmer is one who writes good, sensible and readable codes that work for the users.

[Jim Toy]

Originally posted by David Attard:
Its dumb to say you should still use textpad / vi.

I don't agree with this statement. If programmer becomes proficient using a good extendable editor, the editor becomes an extension of the person. A programmer can work by instinct when it counts. Instead of "...Oh I am in (insert IDE here). I need to click/press/type this to get what I want done to work."
[ September 29, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Toy ]

[Joe Ess]

Originally posted by Jim Toy:

I don't agree with this statement.
[ September 29, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Toy ]

I agree with this statement. I work a lot with WSAD and it's actually a joy to go back to a programmer's text editor (like Visual SlickEdit or JEdit) where I don't have to constantly be worrying about how to get the IDE to do what I want it to do. Now, if I have to refactor a couple hundred classes, or debug a EJB app, that's where WSAD shines.

[Stan James]

I knew a fella who could code up thousands of lines that would compile and run the first time. Maybe he was a real programmer. At least a seriously real desk checker! I admired that as long as we wrote on coding paper, submitted the paper for card punch, submitted the cards for compile and got results in three days. When we got interactive terminals I said screw that deskchecking stuff and let the compiler tell me if I mis-spelled a variable. Now with good IDEs I compile after almost every statement, and Eclipse is syntax checking as I type each character. Go with the times, man, this is great stuff!
BTW: I still keep my KEDIT text editor around. It is unmatched at damaging, er, modifying text. Nearly every day I copy-paste something from Eclipse or VAJ into KEDIT, edit it and copy it back. I don't necessarily want Eclipse to have this kind of text power, but I sure need it now & then.

[Ilja Preuss]

Originally posted by Jim Toy:
I don't agree with this statement. If programmer becomes proficient using a good extendable editor, the editor becomes an extension of the person. A programmer can work by instinct when it counts. Instead of "...Oh I am in (insert IDE here). I need to click/press/type this to get what I want done to work."

That's not an argument of editor vs. IDE, but of being proficient vs. being not or good editor vs. bad IDE. After all, what prevents the editor of an IDE from being as good as your editor of choice?
To me, Eclipse *does* feel like an extension of my person. It happens time and again that someone looking over my shoulder asks "wow, how did you do *that*" and I can't immediately answer, because it "just happens".

[Ilja Preuss]

Originally posted by Joe Ess:

I work a lot with WSAD and it's actually a joy to go back to a programmer's text editor (like Visual SlickEdit or JEdit) where I don't have to constantly be worrying about how to get the IDE to do what I want it to do.

What parts do you have trouble with?

[HS Thomas]

Why not take a 180 and look at it from a Star-Trek point of view..

This is what a Klingon real programmer thinks:

Originally from SJ Baker's site:
A Klingon Code Warrior uses only machine code, keyed in on the front panel switches in raw binary."

You vi,TextPad programmers, you.
regards
[ September 29, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Sam Kebab]

Real programmers use condoms.

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Sam Kebab:
Real programmers use condoms.

Real programmers don't have girlfriends because they're too busy compiling their home-made device drivers into the kernel

[Matthew Phillips]

Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:

Real programmers don't have girlfriends because they're too busy compiling their home-made device drivers into the kernel

Real programmers make their device drivers out of condoms.

[Lasse Koskela]

Real programmers program their own DNA to make condoms useless.

[HS Thomas]

Real programmers program their own DNA to make condoms useless

Difficult to find a Lower Common Denominator than that.
Still , nice responses to Illja's

What parts do you have trouble with?

regards
[ September 29, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[HS Thomas]

On that note, trying to rescue the thread:

Originally posted by Joe Ess:
I work a lot with WSAD

Is WSAD based on Visual Age or Eclipse ? Visual Age had some network problems when I last used it. Compared to Eclipse now it seems like driving a Ford T!
And Forte (the downloadable version) literally choked my machine to death last year.
regards
[ September 30, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Lasse Koskela]

Is WSAD based on Visual Age or Eclipse?

Eclipse.

[Ashok Mash]

Real Programmer use vi and produces brilliant, reusable & robust code.
Smart programmer use Eclipse and produces everything that real programmer can, in half the time.