SCJP 1.5 Study Group.

[Ben Zaidi]

Hello..
Well certainly, you can join the group as i feel some activity
is now going on in the group. So send a request, and we wiill
approve it.
Thanks,
Ben

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Guys,
How is week1 going with Chapter 1 --?
Any difficulties then publish here or at the group, waiting there.
Well, thinking to start a separate thread on each chapter, please
go for the advices you guys have.
Thanks,
Ben

[Barry Gaunt]

Originally posted by benz Zaidi:

Well, thinking to start a separate thread on each chapter,
Ben

In your own forum of course?

[debasmita pattnayak]

posted Today 10:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Guys,
How is week1 going with Chapter 1 --?
Any difficulties then publish here or at the group, waiting there.
Well, thinking to start a separate thread on each chapter, please
go for the advices you guys have.
Thanks,
Ben
--------------------

Hi Ben,

As per the schedule, i have completed chapter 1.For me, it was simple. Even the questions didnt look difficult to me. But i am really scared coz the questions didnt cover the access modifiers part. I think we should look for some sites which can give good practice qustions so that we can get good hold of concepts that we go through in each chapter.
You are very much correct. Go ahead and start a different thread for each chapter so that it will be easy for everyone to analyse doubts related to each chapter and further more if anyone joins late to the group he/she can easily identify whats going on here.
If you have any q (as you had mentioned earlier that you will provide them so that we can practise and can discuss the same),then just let us know.
thanks

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Barry..
I hope you are doing okay.

I was talking of a separate "thread" on Javaranch and precisely
a separate thread meant a separate post because as you can notice
this post has become to huge, hard for people to find answers to their
questions. Even in the earlier posts when we thought about the study group we thought that we will ask the group moderators to please make a differet threads for our study group so that because people were learning and had
on different levels of preparation. Then only Yahoo Group idea collided.Javaranch is our forum for java learning. I cant even think to loose it and go to my own group. There we just made the group so that things getting cluttered up don't get confused.

I am talking about, to make another post here about Bert and Kathy
book and discuss things, this forum means a lot to us, to alteast me.
Because i have got every inspiration from javaranch only. Making a
Yahoo Group doesn't mean that i will leave javaranch forum at any
case.

Above all you suggested long back in earlier posts, try to post
questions in a new post, because this thread is so long, that "95%"
people are not even gonna look at this Post, so that's what i was
suggesting. I hope things are cleared here.

I will love if you Join our Yahoo Group Barry and help us there also.
Be part of our small family there as we are part of javaranch family.
Looking forward to hear from you.

Warmly,
Ben

[Barry Gaunt]

Please do not start such threads on this forum. That is precisely why you have started your study group forum. Look, the moderators of this forum have to keep order in this forum and we will not be able spend time on moderating giant chaotic threads.

The members of JavaRanch are requested to keep to one SCJP topic to each thread. Any threads deemed to be multitopic or not manageble will be closed.

[Ben Zaidi]

Hmm!!
I think so Barry, i am not able to clarify you my point of view,
or either you are mistaking on what i am trying to convey you.

I was saying, that as this thread has become quiet Giantic and long,
its all cluttered here, i was suggesting, if someone has specific
questions regarding topics of K&B, we can start posting our confusions
separately, and rest further difficulties we can post in our own group.
But if we are not cleared about something so ofcourse need to seek
help from our Seniors like you.

Posting Questions regarding K&B, i don't think can be a managing
problem at all, as this thread is becoming highly becoming clutterd.
If we are confused at some problem the Senior might not take time
to find out what kind of Questions are posted on this thread, so
we can make a separate post of our confusion, as i might be encountering
some problem in Generics, then don't i have the right to publish my
confusion separately, as other normal users are doing.. May be my this
post clears your confusion.

"I don't even believe in maintaining so many Giantic Threads, which
are creating confusions for people"

Ben

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Deba!!
Yes, even i am through my chapter 1 and i didn't find it much
difficult as well. Well yes access modifiers are covered in less
detail, well i am gonna work to search some hands on practise for
it, you do the same and share if you come across such link. We can
also search the javaranch forum to find out if someone has shared
such links about Access Modifiers. Well, i also suggested to come
up with the assignment of Week as from the coding perspective may
be it can help more to understand the logic and getting our hands
dirty on coding as well. What do you suggest?
Warmly,
Ben

[Ulf Dittmer]

Ben,

what Barry was reacting to was the idea of starting a thread for each chapter of the book. That would be the "multitopic" threads he referred to. We wouldn't want those here, as each thread should be about one particular well-defined topic/question. Everybody is of course free to start new threads with appropriate content.

If you want to converse in a one-thread-per-chapter style, then the Yahoo forums allow you to do that. But note that it wouldn't do to reference those threads with a URL from here, as I understand those forums are not open to the general public.

[Barry Gaunt]

I am referring to this:

Well, thinking to start a separate thread on each chapter,

A chapter contains more than one SCJP topic. It is preferable to have one SCJP forum thread for each of the single topics covered by a chapter.
[ April 30, 2007: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]

[Henry Wong]

I agree with Barry (and the other Moderators), that this forum is *not* to be used as a rendezvous point.

1. Having chapter by chapter discussion may be useful for those members who are part of the yahoo group, but what about everyone else? It is just confusion, for them and the moderators.

2. Starting technical discussions here, but move it to yahoo group, is great for the yahoo group members, but what about everyone else? This just leaves incomplete topics in the Javaranch forums.

3. Having the "senior" answer questions, only when your yahoo group deemed it as necessary, sounds convenient, but for who? It is really inconvenient to answer a question, when it has already been discussed down the wrong path for days...

Henry
[ April 30, 2007: Message edited by: Henry Wong ]

[Ben Zaidi]

Hello Henry,
I think so, either i am not able to clarify my point of view
in my post, or the moderators are taking my statement in a
wrong way.

Referring to my post, it was first mentioned, that this thread
is getting too much long and complicated. Once i asked a question
on here and Barry was kind enough to point me out, that don't try
to post questions in a thread, where mostly 95% of the people won't
be seeing it, which made me understand, it will be better if i or
other's of members, present here will post their questions as separate
posts, which will be convinient to all group members, who are present
on this forum.

Then i moved forward saying that as we all are following a standard
pattern of examination and that is to study K&B which is no-doubt
an excellent reference, but all the people who joined this thread
were at different level of preparation, some were thinking to appear
in the examination in end of May, some in June and others are separate
novices. Then in that context, many of the people on here suggested
that it will be better if we can ask the Moderators of JavaRanch to
please make the thread of the topics and any person who is at different
level of preparation can join any thread according to their level of
comfort.

It "means" we are starting the discussions on "*THIS*" forum
and ending the discussion of that particular thread on this "*forum*"
only. I nowhere stated that we will start the dicussion at Java-ranch
and then we will drag that dicussion without completing it to our
Yahoo Group Forum, please correctify me, if i have mentioned any
statement like this.

Secondly, that Yahoo Group is not my forum at all, that is the forum
of all the people who are appearing for the examination of SCJP Tiger
certification. We are just part of a small family, in any case we are
part of the family of Javaranch only, because all inspiration comes
from this only. I nowhere stated that, it is compulsory for Seniors
to only reply or help technically our group members, i stated that
if lets say

"I am studying a topic like "Generics" which is totally new for me
and if i am not able to find the answer myself, i will love to seek
help from my seniors, in that context, if i make a separate post of
my confusion and post it here, then what's the big deal in it". I
am mentioning once more, i have nowhere stated that, we are starting
the technical discussion here and dragging that discussion by leaving
it incomplete in javaranch forum."

The members who are part of the Group are also part of Javaranch and
they are actively participating on here, and i myself actively participate
on here only. Making a Yahoo Group was just an idea but still we are
seeking help only here because including me majority of the people
find this forum reliable and convinient and we feel proud of being part
of "Javaranch" family. Please lemme say again, we are part of same
family. That Yahoo Group doesn't belong to me only, it belongs to all
who want to prepare for SCJP and we will love if You people can Join us
there also, it can help all of the people immensly.

I apologise if by any means, my ideas, my suggestions have annoyed
the moderators, because i certainly feel like, some of my recent
posts have been highly taken in a wrong way or mis-understood, and
i sincerely, hope by mentioning or clarifying my point of view here,
rest of the confusion is cleared also.

Correctify me, if somwhere i am wrong.
Warmly,
Ben

[Henry Wong]

Ben,

I was not involved in the original discussion, but from what I can gather... you request to have topics based on "level of preparation" was rejected because it was not reusable.

Remember, that the Javaranch doesn't require registration. As such, we have lots of lurkers, who only use the ranch to search for answers. To help them, topics must be very specific, in subject and discussion. Not based on level of preparation or a chapter of a book.

We understand your need for your style of learning (study groups are good). This is why we also thought that the yahoo groups was a good idea. It allowed you to have your topics, without violating the rules of this ranch.

I apologise if by any means, my ideas, my suggestions have annoyed
the moderators, because i certainly feel like, some of my recent
posts have been highly taken in a wrong way or mis-understood, and
i sincerely, hope by mentioning or clarifying my point of view here,
rest of the confusion is cleared also.

We are actually not "annoyed". Your "suggestions" are merely being rejected for the same reason that they were rejected in the first place (months ago). And for the same reason that the yahoo group was create to allow.

Henry

[Henry Wong]

... we can make a separate post of our confusion, as i might be encountering some problem in Generics, then don't i have the right to publish my confusion separately, as other normal users are doing...

Maybe I should address this, as this seems to be a source of confusion. Having a topic about a specific issue on Generics is fine. Having an ongoing topic about everything related to Generics is not. Every topic should be focused on a issue/question, and answered.

We are not forbidding you to do this because you are not a "normal user". Creating topics based on a subject only, or a chapter only, is frowned upon because it causes confusion. If you have a question about generics, then by all means, create a new topic. But if you have a different (not directly related) question about generics, you should create another topic.

Henry
[ April 30, 2007: Message edited by: Henry Wong ]

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Henry,
Thanks very much for clarifying my confusion also, i was
also mistaking at several points, now i am clearly understood
why the idea was being frowned because i think so my way of
writing it was a bit mixing, now i am cleared.

I thank all the moderators for clarifying the point. I am proud
to be the member of Javaranch. May you guys always rock. Thanks
for giving me a chance to explain my point of view.

Warm Regards,
Ben

[Barry Gaunt]

By the way, I understand that you have been requested (indirectly) by this site's owner to rename your Yahoo group to something other than java-ranchers (or anything like it). Please, can you give us a date for that to be done? I think that it would better be done sooner rather than later.
Thanks
[ May 01, 2007: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]

[lalitha kalanadhbhatla]

Hi all,
I also want to join the grp for writing the SCJP1.5.I want to write the exam by this month end if possible.so lets start.
Lalitha.

[lalitha kalanadhbhatla]

Hi all,
I also want to join the grp for writing the SCJP1.5.I want to write the exam by this month end if possible.so lets start.
Lalitha.

[Ben Zaidi]

Hello Barry,

Well, i am certainly not the owner of the Group, i am just a part
of a few moderators. That issue was raised previously as well, when
Bert mentioned that there are certain legal hiccups and in that context
Henry and you guys suggested that we should put a DISCLAIMER in our
group, that this group has no affialiation with javaranch forum at all.

That thing was done with immediate effects, even i myself published
the "DISCLAIMER" on the javaranch forum. Then this re-naming problem
was even put forward infront of the other moderators and owner of the
Group. He wanted to know what kind of legal hiccups, the owner of the
group was facing, by even putting the disclaimer. Secondly he prompted
in the group, that is "ranchers" not javaranch which differenciates
the name from this forum. Other moderators are of the opinion that,
re-naming will put direct effect on the activity of the group as we
will be needing to delete the Group and come again with a new Group
as i think so Yahoo is not supporting re-naming. They do but then all
the valid access links to our group will become invalid, which will
in other words make the group inactive and will have to move forward
to make a new group, which he thinks is not appropriate, as lots of
members are preparing and it will be a lot of overhead.

I suggested to other moderators, we can come up with an apology to the
owner of the group, by any means, we had no idea the group name will
bring up such an issue. The other modertors think, rather then re-naming
the group, will it be appropriate to come up with some other alternative
solution?

I personally suggest being the member of this forum and a part of key
moderators, that Bert is in our group, and we can change his member rights as a "Moderator" so that you guys can have a notice
as well, that no illegal activity is going on in the group. That is just
a solution in my mind personally, apart from other moderators. Rest i
have put this proposal infront of other moderators and waiting for their
appropriate answer.

In the mean-while, if you can suggest something other then this, i will
be putting it infront of other group moderators. In any case, i personally
apologise to Paul if he is facing issues because of this name as i had
no idea, it can bring up such an issue. I was the person who suggested
for the Study Group, but had no clue, that it can put some legal impacts on the owner of the Group. Keep in touch.

Warm Regards,
Ben

[Barry Gaunt]

Well, the owner of this site wants to know if you have changed the name yet. Looks like he will have to contact you.

Sorry, but I decline your offer to become a member of your group. Thanks anyway.

[debasmita pattnayak]

hi lalitha,
welcome to the group!
Can you provide some sample test papers for SCJP 1.5(if possible chapter wise)so that we have a good grasp all the concepts covered in each chapter of K&B?
if you find any just send them my id:

[email protected]
thanks in advance!

[Ben Zaidi]

Well Barry,

As far as re-naming is concerned, and as it was my idea of the
Study group, but the name was certainly not my idea, but if this
name is creating so much hiccups, i will personally talk to other
moderators for this re-naming thing. Give us a week to eventually
to come to a new name or some other solution. Well is the owner
of group, uses the same email id or can you give us an idea where
we can reach him?

Well, regarding that membership idea was concerned, i was talking
about Bert as he is already the member of the Group, we can change
his membership rights to a moderator, so that he can keep a watch
that no illegal activity works up there. In any case, this was
"only" my personal idea, not other moderators. I will talk about
changing the name and get back. In mean-time, i will write to the
Owner of Javaranch personally and see what he suggests us, because
in any case, we will respect his suggestion because he is in any
case and walks very respectable to us.

Regards,
Ben

[Barry Gaunt]

The JavaRanch copyright owner is Mr. Paul Wheaton and can be contacted via this page.

[Kumaran Jeyabalan]

Hi Friends,

I would like to join the study group as I am planning to take the exam in July.

Thank you all in advance.

[Henry Wong]

... That issue was raised previously as well, when
Bert mentioned that there are certain legal hiccups and in that context
Henry and you guys suggested that we should put a DISCLAIMER in our
group, that this group has no affialiation with javaranch forum at all.

Actually, when I suggested the disclaimer, it was to help with some concerns between a few of the moderators. This is *no* longer a concern between a few of the moderators -- it is a "legality" issue with the owner of the site.

Henry

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for bringing this issue to my notice personally.
Well, i have sent a message to all of other group moderators
and even owner of the group. I have put up all the problem
infront of them, and suggested my ideas as well.

Waiting for their response. As soon as, they come up with some
solution, i ll get back to you. I will personally drop a note
to the owner of javaranch as well. I hope this problem gets resolved
soon.

Warm Regards,
Ben

[Ben Zaidi]

Hi Guys,
It is to bring to the notice to all members of our study group that
our Group name has been changed to

Java-Aspirants-Fire

There was certain legal hiccups coming in group name being "java-ranchers"
so i finally decided to take the action myself on part of other moderators
to avoid future conflicts with people from javaranch. the new url to the
group is

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/java-aspirants-fire/

Keep smiling.
Warmly,
Ben

[shaily sd]

Hi all,
I am new to Javaranch, preparing for SCJP1.5
I hope this will act as a dynamic platform for scjp queries n discussion.
I feel together we can achieve much more..

Happy learning

[bm kanakaraju]

hi all want to join this group pls approve me...

[Minhaj Mehmood]

Hi All
i m new to javaranch.
here are some good notes SCJP

-Regrads
Minhajkk

[Barry Gaunt]

I think it is now time to close up this rather chaotic thread. It has served it's purpose of announcing a SCJP 5.0 Study Group (independent of JavaRanch in all respects).

So, if you wish to join the independent SCJP 5.0 Study Group for some reason, please follow the given link and register youself as a member of the Yahoo group.
[ May 05, 2007: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]