Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Ravish: Ans: Yes, no one denies. (newbies on projects)
Actually, this is not the case in my industry. Experienced American workers are being laid off because projects are being outsourced, and management's justification was that they were getting expert programmers from offshore for cheaper prices. As it turns out, they're not.
Joe
Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
And finally, on the fact that I have yet to see a large-scale application development project in my industry that has been outsourced successfully.
Joe
Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
This is a primary difference between your philosophy and mine, and the reason I don't want newbies on my code.
Joe
Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
- Varun
Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
How about this as a synopsis of the discussion so far:
1. Companies that hire offshore outsourcing firms should be aware that a large percentage (in some cases as much as 50% or more) of the people assigned to any given project are normally "freshers" - new programmers directly out of university with little or no application experience.
2. These freshers are sometimes assigned to your project and are not billed and don't even appear on the project records. These "Shadow Resources" have no knowledge of your business, and no interaction with you or your users.
3. A standard resource for these freshers is the Internet. They will post basic, entry-level questions in forums and mailing lists looking for answers on how to write the code you are paying for.
4. If you want experienced developers on your project, you must request this and have it spelled out in your contract. You can (and should) interview them yourself. This will cost more.
Is this stated correctly? If not, please specify EXACTLY which phrases are incorrect, and what you think the correction should be.
Joe
[ November 29, 2003: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
1. Companies that hire offshore outsourcing firms should be aware that a large percentage (in some cases as much as 50% or more) of the people assigned to any given project are normally "freshers" - new programmers directly out of university with little or no application experience.
Joe
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
JP: So, according to this, some 60% or more of the developers on any given project are freshers.
Ravish: If you have any answer then May I know, how did you deduce this figure ??
This is the last time I even bother responding to you, Ravish, since you don't even take the time to read the posts:
Teri To: There are experienced people who have the responsibility to deliver the project. Under them, there are some less experienced people and tons (ok, not 100 but about 3 to 10, depending on project) of freshers.
Note the word "TONS". This phrase by any reading says that in the majority of cases, there are more freshers than non-freshers. I picked 60%, because that's a little more than half. The numbers may not be exact, but they get the idea across: a large percentage, often more than half, of a given project is freshers.
Joe
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Experienced American workers are being laid off because projects are being outsourced
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
One question at a time.
Joe
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
The mark of good code is not whether it works when delivered. Good code is easy to modify by someone who has never seen it before. This is a primary difference between your philosophy and mine, and the reason I don't want newbies on my code.
Joe
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
- Varun
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Then you are saying Teri is wrong.
Joe
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
How about this as a synopsis of the discussion so far:
1. Companies that hire offshore outsourcing firms should be aware that a large percentage (in some cases as much as 50% or more) of the people assigned to any given project are normally "freshers" - new programmers directly out of university with little or no application experience.
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
2. These freshers are sometimes assigned to your project and are not billed and don't even appear on the project records. These "Shadow Resources" have no knowledge of your business, and no interaction with you or your users.
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
3. A standard resource for these freshers is the Internet. They will post basic, entry-level questions in forums and mailing lists looking for answers on how to write the code you are paying for.
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
4. If you want experienced developers on your project, you must request this and have it spelled out in your contract. You can (and should) interview them yourself. This will cost more.
Originally posted by Teri To:
Joe, here is my take on your synopsis. Now tell where what you think is unfair.
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
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