JavaFX and Success

[Gregg Bolinger]

So what is going to make JavaFX successful? Applets died a long time ago. JNLP hasn't gain much momentum beyond allowing companies/projects to demo their product. What exactly about JavaFX is going to start the new Swing revolution? I've done a bit of JavaFX scripting and I personally don't see the benefit of it over traditional Swing development which I can deliver via Applet or JNLP already.

[James Weaver]

There are two things that, combined, that I believe will make JavaFX successful:

A ubiquitous, self-updating, JVM, which includes the JavaFX libraries. The Java SE 6 update 10 initiative addresses, as well as issues related to startup time, stability of the JVM plug-in, etc. Please take a look at the Java SE 6 update 10 page for more information.

The simple, elegant, declarative scripting that (IMO) makes it as easy to create a JavaFX application without a GUI designer as it is to write a Swing/2D app with a GUI designer. In addition, tools will be available that make it conducive for graphic designers and programmers to collaborate on JavaFX Script programs.

[Gregg Bolinger]

So it sounds like a bit of a waiting game. Reminds me a bit of JSF. Empty promises really. Not that JavaFX is headed down the same path but it sure sounds familiar. I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Bear Bibeault]

<dont-shoot-messenger>
I just got back from speaking at a conference on emerging enterprise technologies. In talking with my fellow presenters, every time JavaFX was brought up, eyes rolled and people snickered. Knowing very little about JavaFX I asked why all the snorting. The consensus seemed to be that it's either too little too late, or a sad attempt to prop up failed technologies such a applets with bailing wire and bubble gum. Can you shed any light on why this attitude seems so prevalent, and counter their arguments?
</dont-shoot-messenger>
[ April 01, 2008: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]

[James Weaver]

Bear,

Thanks for your candid questions! I personally have not seen to much of that, but perhaps it is because I'm speaking about JavaFX and they're snickering behind my back :-)

The reason that I've been so proactive in helping to move JavaFX forward is that it sorely needed in the software development industry. I've articulated my feelings on this subject in the following post on my "Helping you become a JavaFXpert" weblog:
Putting My CTO Hat On - Our Company's Plans for Using JavaFX Script

Also, you can see the video of a presentation that I did at JavaPolis that addresses your questions as well:
Video from the JavaPolis "Intro to JavaFX" Presentation

The core of the issue for me is this:
Cross platform client-server application development has always been a bear (no offense, "Bear") to pull off. I saw a ray of sunlight circa 1996 when it appeared that the JVM was going to be nearly ubiquitous. Then came the browser wars, which deferred that hope, and caused us to use the Web browser as an application platform, rather than for what it was design for, namely sharing rich media content. Since then, technologies such as HTML, JavaScript and XML have been forced to fill the gap that could have been easily filled by a rich-client technology. Consequently, we have internet applications that are hard to write and maintain.

I'm seeing sunlight again because of two factors:
1) I believe that the JVM will be nearly ubiquitous by the end of 2008. This is because of initiatives such as Sun's Java SE 6 update 10 project.
2) JavaFX Script runs on the JVM, can instantiate and call methods of any Java class, and has a simple declarative syntax that provides a great abstraction to Swing and Java 2D.

[Gregg Bolinger]

In reading similar related posts James, I've noticed you mention two things quite a bit.

a) Java SE 6 update 10 initiative
b) The simple, elegant, declarative scripting

I've yet to see any mention of how JavaFX simplifies the server/client model that it has to have in order to sell as RIA. Wouldn't that also contribute greatly to its success or failure? Sure, its great if I can create a nice fancy flashy GUI easier in JavaFX than with Swing and sure its great if the load time is faster and customers have a better VM plugin experience. But if its still a PITA to talk to the server what do I get? A pretty useless GUI, IMHO.

Would you care to go into any details on that aspect?

Thanks.

[James Weaver]

Gregg,

My friends call me Jim, by the way :-)

Here are a couple of example JavaFX programs that demonstrate communicating over HTTP (using XML and JSON as the data transport protocols). Note in these examples that JavaFX has libraries that simplify building and parsing XML and JSON documents.

A JavaFX Script Calendar that Displays a Google Calendar Feed

Compiled JavaFX Script Now Speaks JSON

In addition, any client to server communication technology can be used, because you can use Java classes (e.g. that implement RMI, an RPC mechanism, or SOAP)) directly from JavaFX.

[Gregg Bolinger]

Thanks "Jim" I'll take a look at those examples.

[Gregg Bolinger]

Jim, would you mind explaining this a bit?

albums = 
      for (albumz in jsonObj.pairs where albumz.name == "albums",
            result in (albumz.value as JSONObject).pairs where result.name == "result",
              album in (result.value as JSONObject).pairs where album.name == "album",
                alb in (album.value as Array).array ) {
          alb.toString();
      }

[Bear Bibeault]

Originally posted by James Weaver:
Bear, Thanks for your candid questions!

I'm renowned for them.

Your answer leads me to other questions, but I'll spawn those off in a new thread.