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Thomas Mcfarrow
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Considering the severity of what happened last week and the topics of this forum. I would think it would be appropriate if a new forum was created because the topics in this forum is far from "Meaningless Drivel". Also, this isn't going away anytime soon.
Also, God Bless America!
 
Cindy Glass
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I think that we need to remember the JavaRanch is a JAVA forum. The title "Meaningless Drivel" is only in relation to it's relativity to Java - not to a topics importance in the real world. There have always been discussions of "Great Importance" in this forum, and they will continue to happen.
But if they don't relate to Java or a related technology - they should be in Meaningless Drivel.
If you want Meaningfull Drivel you will need to go to a forum on politics or whatever.
 
Thomas Mcfarrow
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I see your point but the mass murder of innocent people isn't "Meaningless" in relation to anything.
God Bless America!
 
Cindy Glass
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The title was meant to be amusing and to imply that only java is worth talking about. We really can't lose our sense of humor - even in the face of such horror, or we will already have lost.
In addition there is the practical matter that if the political and religious conversations that are happening here are of any real value to anyone but ourselves, then they should probably not be at a technical forum - but at someplace more appropriate.
Of course to US they are very meaningfull - but then most of us are geeks .
 
Paul Ralph
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I think that we need to remember the JavaRanch is a JAVA forum. The title "Meaningless Drivel" is only in relation to it's relativity to Java - not to a topics importance in the real world. There have always been discussions of "Great Importance" in this forum, and they will continue to happen.
But if they don't relate to Java or a related technology - they should be in Meaningless Drivel.
If you want Meaningfull Drivel you will need to go to a forum on politics or whatever.


Hmmm...do politics sites have a special place where you can post a question about Java?
Paul R
 
Paul Ralph
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On a more serious note, this isn't a topic that's likely to go away anytime soon. Not with the war about to start.
I can't see why "Meaningless Drivel" can't be a category with forums entitled "September 11 and the Aftermath", "Blatant Advertising", "Lighthearted stuff" or something like that.
If it isn't obvious by now, JavaRanch has transcended its original purpose to discuss and learn about Java -- it has become a community whose the only connection is a computer language/platform. Communities have needs, including a place to have fun and relax. (Isn't that what bartenders provide?)

I think that we need to remember the JavaRanch is a JAVA forum.

Perhaps JavaRanch was just meant to be about Java (Just Java???) at one time, but it isn't anymore. And if I'm right, and it's all about the people who visit it, then why not extend another forum to this serious topic?
The title was meant to be amusing and to imply that only java is worth talking about. We really can't lose our sense of humor - even in the face of such horror, or we will already have lost.

Ah, but this is exactly why I'd like to see a separate category for the attack discussion. I've thought about submitting a joke or some more lighthearted material, but feel that by doing so would tacitly imply that I am not taking the situation seriously.
And when (days, months, years?) the postings slow down and/or stop the two forums can be re-merged.
Still firm in the opposition, Cindy? What does everyone else think?
Paul R

 
Cindy Glass
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Well, I think that you can mix conversations here.
But if you feel really strongly about it, we have an open door policy. Anyone is allowed to make suggestions about the site itself or complain in the JavaRanch forum, where Paul Wheaton will eventually see it. In the end HE is the one that needs to be convinced.
 
Paul Ralph
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Submitted.
"HE"? I didn't think Paul was that powerful.
Paul R
 
Jim Yingst
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Actually, I think it would work better to have this conversation in the JavaRanch forum, so I'm going to move this there. See you there...
 
Jim Yingst
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OK. My own opinion is that Meaningless Drivel should really be renamed Miscellaneous, or perhaps "Other Stuff", so that the name doesn't belittle the topics discussed. Some of those topics are meaningless, and just there for fun. Others are not. But if we have two forums, Meaningless and Meaningful, then we have to police whether a given topic belongs in one forum or the other. And what's meaningless to one person is often meaningful to another. I'd be happier avoiding those particular arguments, and just have the one forum where people can talk about what they want to. Anyone agree?
There might also be some technical issues with this - we might not be able to rename to forum so much as close it and create a new one. Which might be kind of a pain - I haven't investigated this yet. But if people are up for the idea, we can probably work something out.

[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited September 17, 2001).]
 
Michael Ernest
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Y'know, the world's dreadfully short on humor right now, and I'd prefer we didn't abandon ours for the sake of being politically correct.
Frankly, I need far more places where my words are not consciously endowed with dignity. If my own self-worth were threatened by a title like Meaningless Drivel, it would make sense that I not go there, not that Meaningless Drivel change its name to suit me and my issues.

------------------
Michael Ernest, co-author of: The Complete Java 2 Certification Study Guide
[This message has been edited by Michael Ernest (edited September 17, 2001).]
 
Mapraputa Is
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
OK. My own opinion is that Meaningless Drivel should really be renamed Miscellaneous, or perhaps "Other Stuff", so that the name doesn't belittle the topics discussed.
Anyone agree?

Hey, you did not expect Mapraputa to agree, did you?
First I felt inclination to support the idea of separation the forum into two: "Meaningless Drivel" and "Meaningful drivel" and devote myself to meaningless one exclusively... But then it occurred to me that they both co-exist in one forum now, and there is some synergetic effect in it. Each of them will lose something essential if separated. "Meaningless Drivel" being abandoned by "serious thinkers" can degrade into totally meaningless ... drivel , that's it, and entertain itself with trifles, which would be kinda boring. "Meaningful drivel" can lose a source of inspiration provided by its playful and often creative neighbor, and become boring too There were conflicts between two in past, but they seem were able to resolve them.
And if to keep one forum, I personally would vote to leave "Meaningless Drivel" name, as it favors us, meaningless people, but I admit that it discriminates "Meaningful" folk. Can we think about something that includes both?
 
Jim Yingst
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> Can we think about something that includes both?
That's what I meant for "Miscellaneous" or "Other Stuff". Both serious and nonserious stuff. Which is what we have now, pretty much, except for the name. It's not a big issue to me - it just feels more appropriate to have a more neutral name. But I also agree it's important to keep one's sense of humor, so maybe the current name isn't so bad after all.
 
Cindy Glass
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Personally I think the current name is part of the charm. If we go getting all full of ourselves and our lofty conversations - we lose alot of the fun.
I believe that if we give it time for the shock to lessen, that we will return naturally to having a mix of serious and silly conversations in the same forum.
 
Paul Ralph
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How did this conversation turn from deciding to create a new form to revoking the name of "Meaningless Drivel"? I suggested new names, but that was obviously a big mistake because it's distracting from the main point. I don't care what you name it, you can call it WGASA if you want to. (Although I don't recommend it.)
I did a quick count and found six threads not dealing with the terrorist strike since the attack happened. And probably half of those were started before the attack anyway. That's out of two pages of posts!
Thus, the proposal for a separate forum specifically for the tragedy. I don't see the topic dying down, simply because we're moving from tragedy to war. But maybe the war will be boring, uninteresting and controversial. I could go for that.
On the otherhand, I'll personally see if levity is still allowed in MD.
Paul R
 
Mapraputa Is
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I suspect we will not go so far to create a separate forum for Sep.11 events (of course, I cannot say for everybody, but there is not much visible enthusiasm). Creating a new "meaningful" forum seems a better solution - we would not have to close it when the subject vanishes. We could invite everybody to continue Sep.11-related issues there, but there is not much enthusiasm for such forum either. Folk is too busy fighting, to notice WHAT category their posts belong too. Oh well.
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited September 20, 2001).]
 
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