Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Why I think XP is not that competitive :-
It closes all other competition - in terms of using new tools or even new ideas.
Does an XPer ever say - hey that's brilliant , can I have some. It seems to be re-invent the wheel all the time.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by Jeff Langr:
Would you explain what you mean by "competitive?"
-Jeff-
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
I think XP is good at creating value at the bottom of the chain in terms of it's developers.
Sticking really close to the customers gives what the customers want. I guess the onus is on the customers to determine if they need new tools to remain competitive. I can't see the XP department taking on the role of deciding what the customer wants. And sometimes this is required for both to survive.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
I think XP is good at creating value at the bottom of the chain in terms of it's developers.
Sticking really close to the customers gives what the customers want.
I guess the onus is on the customers to determine if they need new tools to remain competitive.
I can't see the XP department taking on the role of deciding what the customer wants. And sometimes this is required for both to survive.
Perhaps the XP principles can be applied to Business Analysis as well ?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Most customers worry only about the "F." Someone has to remind the customer that the remainder of the requirements ("URPS") must be considered, otherwise you don't have a real, competitive system.
I think the problem here is that we, the developers, have been wrongly accustomed to having a license to play. It's the Customer (well, usually her boss) that pays the bills so why should he allow the Developer to do something more costly simply because the XYZ will look good on the resume next to ABC and DEF?HST:So the team depends entirely on the Customers immediate needs. Do XP developers feel free to train in new technologies, keep abreast of developments that the Customer doesn't see as immediately necessary ?
This can be frustrating for the solutions developers. The developers are reliant on the Customer 100% on their career choices. Small companies may not have a wide range of careers to choose from so the XP team suffers.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
I don't quite get what you mean with the last sentence, "Small companies may not have a wide range of careers to choose from so the XP team suffers"?
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Do XP developers feel free to train in new technologies, keep abreast of developments that the Customer doesn't see as immediately necessary ?
This can be frustrating for the solutions developers. The developers are reliant on the Customer 100% on their career choices. Small companies may not have a wide range of careers to choose from so the XP team suffers.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by Frank Carver:
As with many agile approaches, one of the aims of XP is to bring the development of software back close to real business needs. Software development is a business function just like any other, and has to fit in with the business model and marketing. Would you consider it reasonable for the paint finish line in an auto factory to decide to paint all the cars pink, just to claim experience of a different color on a resume?
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Just that it may be one or two people writing the test , designing and programming, and finally testing of the system. Which probably doesn't leave room to develop other skills.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
What about those consultancies / staff contracted to do a piece of work ? Would they be considered part of the XP team as they'd be let go when that work finishes ? Do they have to work the XP way ? A lot do bring in an extra level of expertise. Most are not company men / women in a traditional sense.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Then at http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules.html we have 28 �rules� that must be followed. There are too many to list here.
According to Rick Hightower there are 5 principles to XP:
...
There are 4 values of XP:
...
Object mentor tells us that XP is a set of �best practices�
...
Ron Jeffries tells us that there are 13 �core practices�
...
Simple, huh ?
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by Rob Pike:
ust a quick note. Glancing at bits of some of the postings in here I find it amusing that any product of Microsoft and the idea of customer satification would ever come up in the same place. Extensive testing is what Microsoft really needs to focus on. Having a monopoly tends to leave the provider of goods neglecting his/her customers which can be seen when using XP. XP is more for the family person. Developing home videos and the sort but not extensive developing!!! We, the consumer, are the lab rats in all of this. I bought an XP for my home office and we recently purchased 2 at my workplace. Doesn't anyone get sick of that darn error window that keeps popping up and asking whether to send error message or not? Leave me with workstation anyday. In conclusion, XP will appeal to the family office more than the work office so it will be more competitive in the home than in the office. Didn't read most of the last postings and merely responding to the subject of the initial posting, so I hope I didn't stray off the last bit of conversation. [yawn] Now back to sleep.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Do XP developers feel free to train in new technologies, keep abreast of developments that the Customer doesn't see as immediately necessary? This can be frustrating for the solutions developers. The developers are reliant on the Customer 100% on their career choices. Small companies may not have a wide range of careers to choose from so the XP team suffers.
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Figures...Originally posted by Rob Pike:
Didn't read most of the last postings and merely responding to the subject of the initial posting, ...
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Yes, and that's exactly what experience with extreme programming does for you -- it gives you a competitive edge against BDUFers via improved quality and higher user satisfaction. If you're talking about competitiveness within the XP team, well, I would bet that the team knows how good a work someone on the team does, remembering that they have total access to that individual's code (collective code ownership) and see how he works (pairing).Originally posted by HS Thomas:
But I'd still be aware that developers need to be competitive just as businesses need to.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
But the XP team would not be tasked with finding the right technical platform, what hardware needs to be bought, training programs, inter-operability issues, right ?
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Rob Pike:
Doesn't anyone get sick of that darn error window that keeps popping up and asking whether to send error message or not? Leave me with workstation anyday. [yawn] Now back to sleep.
Rob
Better than an outright crash with a blue screen, though.
Originally posted by Sonny Pondrom:
I'm still using Win95 and getting the blue screens. Is there any advice on a new operating system? XP or Linux? :roll:
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Thanks to Jeff and everyone for an illuminating discussion.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
His brain is the size of a cherry pit! About the size of this ad:
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