<a href="http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Scott W. Ambler</a><br />Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Rational<br /> <br />Now available: <a href="http://www.ambysoft.com/books/refactoringDatabases.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Refactoring Databases: Evolutionary Database Design</a>
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
For some reason many people within IT have seem to have forgotten that the goal of software development should be the development of software.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
For some reason many people within IT have seem to have forgotten that the goal of software development should be the development of software.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
For some reason many people within IT have seem to have forgotten that the goal of software development should be the development of software.
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Originally posted by Stan James:
I've been feeling this strongly lately. We had a perceived quality problem and the remedy was more process steps - documents, reviews, sign-offs. Very much process > people. Nothing about tightening the loop between ideas and software, TDD or just plain coding better. Ouch.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
what I'm missing here is the notion that the use of some tools easily can actively reduce the interaction taking place. The introduction of a bug tracking tool, for example, can easily reduce the amount of direct interaction between developers and management/customer
And taking this further, in the commercial software business the goal of software development should be to help the business make money and not "just" writing software.
I just read an inteesting paper on the iron triangle of time, cost and scope (I like how Scott draws it with quality in the middle). It relates the triangle as a measurement of success to the very definition of project: a finite piece of work done on time & budget. I'll edit in a reference to the paper if I can find it on my other PC.
<a href="http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Scott W. Ambler</a><br />Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Rational<br /> <br />Now available: <a href="http://www.ambysoft.com/books/refactoringDatabases.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Refactoring Databases: Evolutionary Database Design</a>
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Reid - SCJP2 (April 2002)
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
Individuals and interactions over processes and tools. That would have saved Ferrari a bucket full of million dollars. Just give Schumacher a beetle.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
I think you missed the point. Nowhere in the manifesto is it said that you should use tools that are inappropriate for the task at hand.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
I also never said you should use tools that are inappropriate for the task at hand.
I see were Scott is going to, but I believe his point misses the fact that this is a competitive environment (much like F1). You can't compare a pack of non-programmers with a team of SCJP and conclude that tools don't make a major difference.
I had Tomcat 5.5 he had some form of IIS on W2003. I had Eclipse. He had Notepad. I had breakpoints and the debug mode. He had Notepad. I had MyEclipse IDE to manage Hibernate and JSF. He had Notepad. I had XStream to convert objects to XML and back. He had Microsoft DOM and had to parse child by child. I had Hibernate. He had to parse the strings returned by the database to build the XML response.
The total cost of my tools? 30 buck (that was for MyEclipse). Of course Notepad is also free with Windows, but then again....
Finally the Individuals and interactions over processes and tools paradigm seems itself to go against Agile. If you pair program soon bad programmers are weeded out (either become good or kicked out) and you hit a development barrier not set by skill.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Finally the Individuals and interactions over processes and tools paradigm seems itself to go against Agile. If you pair program soon bad programmers are weeded out (either become good or kicked out) and you hit a development barrier not set by skill.
Anyway, "people and interactions" is about a lot more than just skill, in my opinion. Perhaps Scott's article doesn't make that clear (or perhaps Scott's opinion actually differs from mine here).
<a href="http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Scott W. Ambler</a><br />Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Rational<br /> <br />Now available: <a href="http://www.ambysoft.com/books/refactoringDatabases.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Refactoring Databases: Evolutionary Database Design</a>
Originally posted by Scott Ambler:
Nope, I'm pretty clear that it's mostly about attitude. See Personality Traits.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
And neither is the manifesto suggesting you should. It's "over", not "instead", remember.Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
I really can't make a compromise between individuals and tools.
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
They are equally important.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
If you'd have a choice between getting one man develop you a piece of software using nothing but Notepad and getting one PC loaded with all best of breed tools but no developer, which would you reckon gets the job done faster?
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
I believe people can better themselves so a poor developer will become better over time. I believe tools don't become better over time. Notepad will be notepad until you install something better. And no matter how much you use notepad it will continue to be notepad. Yet the programmer will improve over time. Be it with notepad or the best IDE.
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
Software is cheap compared to developer time. Set a price for a development tool. It will be nothing compared to the monthly wage and productivity of the developer.
Exactly, when used right. And I'm sure you've seen organizations where corporate tool selection and prescribed processes are slowly and surely eating away on software development teams' productivity. The statement in the manifesto hints at individuals and interactions being the number one priority and that tools and that, as you said, processes should foster them.Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
But processes and tools? They don't counter individuals and interactions. They foster them.
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
I also believe tools help you become a better developer.
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Originally posted by Gerardo Tasistro:
Yet the programmer will improve over time. Be it with notepad or the best IDE.
Software is cheap compared to developer time. Set a price for a development tool. It will be nothing compared to the monthly wage and productivity of the developer.
But processes and tools? They don't counter individuals and interactions. They foster them.
Why not use the right tool for the right language too?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
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