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Johannes de Jong: What makes PL/1 special?

 
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I used PL/1 when displays were not yet invented (or rarely connected to comps) and stayed with reminiscence of impression that PL/1 was extremely more comfortable than Fortran77 in multiplying/dividing arrays, sorry, slipped from my memory... matrices!
...Until recently, I had my CV like an autobiography, i.e. a full collection of all facts from my life, so PL/1 was also in.
Therefore I had a call from Germany asking me if I wanted to work with PL/1... I answered that I didn't...
After awakening and climbing out of bed, I started wondering what is it so complex in PL/1 as to search people abroad to work with it instead of hiring a high (I mean secondary) school graduate or someone with Basic/Fortran basics?
And I still continue wondering... Any hints? Where it is (still) used for and why? Any links to PL/1 manual on-line and free?
 
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PL/1 is still used in some major Swiss banks on IBM mainframes. It won't go away in a hurry either.
-B
 
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Many companies will not spend the money to rewrite perfectly good systems. That is why you have PL/1 and COBOL systems written in the 70's and 80's or earlier still in existance.
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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Thanks Paul and Barry,
I worked both with Cobol and PL/1.
I understand why COBOL is special...
but cannot get about PL/1. When was it invented? What did exist at that time?
 
Barry Gaunt
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I first saw PL/1 around 1972. I think it was IBM's response to Algol 68. Also appearing at that time was APL.
That was in UK, I guess we were a few years behind the USA.
-Barry
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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Thanks Barry,

Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
I first saw PL/1 around 1972. I think it was IBM's response to Algol 68. Also appearing at that time was APL.
That was in UK, I guess we were a few years behind the USA.
-Barry


I am sure I am behind
 
tumbleweed
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Here at ING +- 80% of all our code is PL/I.
PL/I's strength lies in it's array handling. I for one have not seen a better language when it comes to arrays, it's amazing what you can do with arrays, even dynamic runtime arrays. For the rest it's not that much different from Cobol.
I personally think the reason why they don't use graduates with Basic/Fortran basics, is the environment, read IBM mainframe rather than the comp. language itself.
I'm sure they can pick up any bit of production code and read it with understanding. Having said it, there are quite a few programs floating around here that even I can't read There are always guys that recon a good program is one that uses a comp. language's most obscure statements. These guys however are nowhere to be found at 03:00 when the system crashes
As for your statement Therefore I had a call from Germany asking me if I wanted to work with PL/1... I answered that I didn't...
I can't understand why you turn a job down because of the language they use, a language is simply a way of communicating with the computer, now if you turned down the job because it is in Germany, well as a true Dutchman I would have to say I understand
I hope my answer helped.
[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Johannes de Jong ]
 
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JdJ forgot to mention the most bestest PL/I feature of all! -- Subtraction does not cause underflow.

<runs, ducks, and hides>
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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Hi JdJ,
it was not job offer but a question: "Whether I wanted to work with PL/1", that I had answered.
Then the terrible thing was that I understood it was ACC (Air Traffic Control Center), and I just defected from local one 2 years ago. It was nightmare (122 OSes are used in Europe alone, have you ever seen so many?) No organization, anarchy: 28 bosses per one worker and it is not hyperbole.
Yes, I remember arrays. I worked with them also. That was a song, after (or between) FORTRAN77.
I already proposed, or at least asked, in CattleDrive, to open courses on reading, i.e guessing, of codes, what is more important than anything
[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: G Vanin ]
 
Johannes de Jong
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I already proposed, or at least asked, in CattleDrive, to open courses on reading, i.e guessing, of codes, what is more important than anything
I saw your question in the CattleDrive. And my reply to that is. That nobody can teach you to read cryptic code.. For the simple reason that there are just too many different ways one can solve any given problem. Only patience and experience can teach you to read cryptic code.
IT shops should be to shoot the idiots that think being a smart programmer means using the most obscure statements a specific computer language has to offer, so get rid of the "bright" guys that write the cryptic code.
The role of the CattleDrive is to teach it's students how to write Java code and above all write UNDERSTANDABLE code. That means keep it simple. One must always assume that the next person won't know as much as you do. Your aim should be to write code that any level of programmer can read.
I pride myself that you don't have to be a boffin to read my code.
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
That means [i]keep it simple


but not simpler. Impossible to disagree.
Hi, Johannes de Jong,
I could not understand what is ING.
is "J" in Dutch pronounced as in German, like "I", or like in English "ZH"?
I had a Dutch colleague sime time ago.
We discussed once with other Portuguese colleagues (I am Russian) why Dutch language had not spread over the wold with colonies (like Portuguese, Spanish, English, French) and decided that nobody could manage mmitate/pronounce anything from Dutch.
I agree that context is important not the tool (for artist). There is a Russian proverb: "A good thought comes afterwards".
 
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
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Gavin its not a matter of simpler, the program still has to do what it has to do but it has to be readable that is understandable by any level of programmer. There will always be programs that will have to use the obscure statements, but at least 80% of all programs can be written using " plain simple language".
ING is the company I have the pleasure to work for.
As for the pronunciation of a J in Dutch, I'll be dammed if I know
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
As for the pronunciation of a J in Dutch, I'll be dammed if I know [/QB]


Really I asked how do you pronounce/transcript your name. Or you are still dammed
Please do not distort, at least, mine
 
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
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Really I asked how do you pronounce/transcript your name. Or you are still dammed.
Yes I still am. I'm not a linguist. I simply don't know how "my" J sounds in another language. The only way I can "teach" someone to pronounce my name is if I see them face to face and teach them by example.

Sorry if my use of the word dammed offended you. It's a normal English expression to say "I'll be dammed if I know" if you don't know something, at least in the part of the world I learnt my English
And this is the last word I will post in this thread.
 
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Ok, I'll take over then (I'm Dutch). The 'J' is pronounced as 'Y' in Dutch; so my name (Jos) is pronounced as 'Yos', the same as in 'You', 'Your', 'Yatta' or whatever. ;-)
Just FYI, the Dutch language has some totally unpronouncable combinations of consonants; these were used as 'verbal passwords' during the many wars the Dutch were in: if you couldn't pronounce it, you weren't Dutch so we killed ya But the Dutch tribes aren't like that anymore; prommised. ;-)
Getting a bit on topic again: I do remember PL1 and the total mess IBM made out of it back in those dark ages. (+/- 1965)
kind regards
ps. All the best for this New Year to all of you.
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Jos Horsmeier ]
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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I reversed displayed name due to technical problems
Thanks Jos,
orthodox Xmas is 7th of January, and Orthodox New Year is 14th of January (by Julian Claendar). So we celebrate twice.
Thanks twice.
Very nice introduction to Dutch. It was my ancient desire to get in touch with it.
anyway I feel bad and want to return Johannes.
JdJ,
You wrote you were Dutch but speak/work/write in English. There is no need to be a linguist about telling your name to others and knowing that
The names are not translated to any other languages.
You may be Gates, but it is not "vorota" in Russian (did we start any non-English? I thought it was prohibited in JR), it is still [Geits] in any language.

Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
It's a normal English expression to say "I'll be dammed if I know" if you don't know something, at least in the part of the world I learnt my English


If it is normal, why it is not in any available to any library dictionary?

Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
Sorry if my use of the word dammed offended you.


I find it unfriendly when a person starts fooling me that he doesn't know pronunciation of the letters from his own name.
I asked to you, first of all as a bartender, to avoid distorting my name. It was never presented as "gavin".
So you prefered, instead, to go dammed as the "last" word. Usual moderation practice: you are not the first nor the last from the family.
To be family doesn%27t mean to be or support to be meaningless
[ January 07, 2003: Message edited by: yidanneuG ninaV ]
 
Johannes de Jong
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I apologize for distorting your name.
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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There is nothing to wrong to make errors or be offended.
But it is multicultural:
had you wanted to contact me, you could have sent me private message or Email, without exposing my REAL name in such a way.
It is even inside animals and criminals: they may trap in groups, but only jacals attack/fight in packs
[ January 07, 2003: Message edited by: yidanneuG ninaV ]
 
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OK everyone, please remember not to distort yidanneuG's name in the future. He's very sensitive about it after all. :roll:
It is even inside animals and criminals: they may trap in groups, but only jacals attack/fight in packs
Charming analogy. It's also worth noting that if you wander into a herd of cattle and periodically yank on their tails, some of the bulls may well decide to do something about it.
 
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"I'll be dammed if I know" is a common colloquialism (although not my personal favorite) as you may notice from the usage in this list. Especially this link.
 
Paul Stevens
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Off topic folks. Take to MD. This is General Computing.
 
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