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score results?

 
Clovis Hartig II
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Hi everyone,I'm just starting to study java and may go for certification too someday. I'm new at javaranch and am wondering if anyone ever makes a post that they are certified but leaves off their score? I would feel uncomfortable stating it, regardless of high or low. I didn't used to discuss GPA (grade point avaerag) with others either because, well, it's kind of like discussing your salary: If it's too high people could resent you, if it's too low, people could think you're less skillful than they. Also, it just feels kind of funny. And I know I'm going to be taking my time to work toward it so that I can fit in some other work but I admire those who eat, breathe and sleep it for a couple of weeks and get certified. Brainy!


Do you worry that employers might see that and mistakenly assume it's easy to get? I KNOW that's not true but I wonder what manager types might be thinking....

Hope I'm not being controversial here but I am curious if anyone thinks it could be damaging to the perception of the certification if there is competition to get it in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of experience? I KNOW that these guys who are bragging about how easy it is must be ultrabright but there might be a downside in that the perception of the SJCP, etc. might be quite weakened.
 
Andrew Esse
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Hey Clovis, I am not at all uneasy by printing my score, even though it is the lowest one I've seen on here. The people at Sun decided that a 52% on their exam was enough to certify someone and since my score was higher than that. If it is good enough for Sun, it is good enough for me.

I also think that the SCJP is only a test and employers realize that certifications are just that - tests. I currently work as a consultant and our billing rates are based mostly on experience. The certification might help prove that we know what we say we know, but when it comes down to it all the certifications in the world won't make your billing rate increase as much as years of experience working on projects. I don't think that passing the exam quickly 'degrades' its value because many of these people have the work experience that allows them to quickly prepare for the exam. Also, my employer didn't ask me what my score was on the exam. They only asked if I got the certification.
[ September 14, 2004: Message edited by: Andrew Esse ]
 
Clovis Hartig II
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Hi Andrew,

Thanks for responding. I was concerned that my post might offend people and I didn't want to do that. I just worry that managerial types will think it's a brreze if they hear people can get it so quickly. I just worry too much Sorry if I bugged anybody and congratulations on passing everyone. I hope I can some day.

Cheers
 
Raj Poosarla
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Hey Clovis,

It all depends on how many hours and how much effort you spent each day learning stuff that determines how many days a person needs to pass the test. If somebody is speding 4 hrs compared to 1hr per day, you can easily imagine who will give the test in the shortest time.

At the end, what matters is what you know... not somebody approving your skills... I feel that a certificate is just a ticket to get you through the entrance...!

Cheers,
-raj

--------------------------------

SCJP 1.4, SCBCD
 
Barbara Norway
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Hi,

I agree with Raj. Obviously about time spent per day, etc. but also about the fact that employers want experience AND certification. I've heard some say, although I don't remember if it was here at the Ranch or somewhere else, that volunteer work doesn't count with employers. I haven't found that to be the case. Quite some time ago I wanted to switch from one technology into another and I did some volunteer work for awhile to get some new experience. It turned out to be the ticket I needed to move into the new area.

Well, I guess I digressed there but I just wanted to say that experience, whether volunteer or paid, helped me considerably more than certifications but I still value certifications. I believe they give you a baseline of knowledge and help you fill in the areas you may not be exposed to otherwise. I like sitting down and systematically going through the material. Then later on I'm at least aware of areas that I can research more to arrive at a solution.

I've had a killer job that has kept me wrapped up in cranking out results so I haven't been able to get any new certs since February of 2003. I miss it! I still have the job but I'm going to carve out some of my own time to at least get the SJCP.
 
Bharat Roy
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Hi Clovis,

There is nothing wrong (or funny -as you wrote) in quoting how much you have scored. I bet - the day you will clear the cert you will be the 1st one to post that u cleared with so an so %age. The feeling is so good. I got 83% last Friday (SCJP) I couldn't stop the temptation to post here. Even if I had scored 52%, I would have posted here. Java Ranch is a kind of virtual home with lots of friends. Don't you tell your friends/family members how much you have scored?

Secondly, it doesn't matter whether one takes 3 months or 1 week to clear. If you read the posts here, then you will realize that those who already had experience are the ones who are able to clear the cert in 1 week, not the others.


Do you worry that employers might see that and mistakenly assume it's easy to get?


Just prepare for the exam (and clear it), and your mind set will change.

Companies respect Sun cert. definitely it not equal to experience. But for a fresher like me, it's a VIP pass to clear the initial interviews. By getting certified they know that you have acquired a certain level of skills. That's all they need.

All the best to you, for your cert preparation.

Regards

Ankur Bhatt
[ September 28, 2004: Message edited by: Ankur Bhatt ]
 
James Kimble
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I have to agree about scores. It can help or hurt you depending on the
readers perspective and your score. Though those who get high scores
certainly deserve their bragging rights, those who barely pass, well,
you know what they call the guy who graduates at the bottom of the
class in medical school don't you? Doctor!

I would also argue that you could get a perfect score on the SCJP (the
only one I've taken) and be worthless as a programmer. Passing it and
doing well are good indicators that this person probably has the POTENTIAL
to be a good programmer but it proves little else. Just as a person could
be able to spell every word in the dictionary and know every grammatical
rule that exists and still be a lousy (meaning no one will read their
books) writer. The SCJP Certification says that this person is capable
of understanding syntax, language rules, and some basic concepts of
programming structure (and I mean really basic. All SCJP covered was
the IS-A, HAS-A relationship). That's a tiny fraction of what a programmer
must know to write good, maintainable, reliable, testable code. I know the
SCJD presumably covers more of these topics and maybe it does, I've never
taken it.

I've been writing software for 28 years and I have a MS in CIS graduating
first in my class. I don't call myself an authority but I know something
about this profession. Certification is a fad driven by software companies and HR departments that are at a loss as to how to evaluate who will
make a good programmer and who will not. They're not a bad thing if the
employer understands what they mean and what they don't. My fear is that
the 18-30 crowd, that have memories we older people can't remember ,
can score very well on these tests and give the illusion to the unitiated
HR person that they're more capable than the 45 year old that's been coding
for 20 years in a dozen languages and uses the compiler to catch his
minute syntax errors.

Like everything else, there's good and bad to be taken from certification.

It's nice that this site makes help so accessable and friendly.
 
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