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SCJP losing its shine

 
Arvin Jason
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Being an ardent fan of Java , I would like to point out that the Java certification program especially SCJP is fast losing its shine . The questions are all around in various sites . You mug up the dumps(around 300 questions) and you are sure to get 90% or more . My friends who are Sun certified tell me that they want to study core java before going to interviews . If that is the case, what is the point is being certified? . I wonder why there are no change in questions and why the questions are always pedictable?. Sun really needs to dig deep into this or in a couple of years, SCJP will not be worth anything. It's either that guys who prepare the questions want to promote their books and websites or maybe nobody cares . This is turning out to be a huge scam which better be caught sooner than later when it's too late .

I know they'll be a lot of noise regarding this topic . But face it guys , this is the truth . Unless Sun revamps the whole thing , you might as well mug up the dumps and pass the test.
 
Taariq San
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What's 'mug up the dumps'?

Are you certified?

Your friends who are and want to study core java before interviews, were they using all of the java language fundamentals between certification and interviews?

On the issue of mock exams, every certification has mock exams available and they test your understanding more than give you a list of things to memorize.

I've been coding java almost exclusively for about 7 or 8 years, and now that I want to do the upgrade exam I've learnt alot about all the new features and I thought that I understood the concepts properly, heck I almost booked my exam for last week, yet I barely pass some of the mock exams. In fact, I barely passed Sun's pre-assessment test, another mock exam.

Once I pass, again as this is an upgrade, I doubt I'll use half the stuff I've just learnt in the next 8 years, but my tool box will be loaded with a bunch of new tools just in case the need arises. That, and if you and I try to get the same job and we have similar experience, I bet I get the job.
 
Arvin Jason
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I am double certified but I knew the concepts . Now there are guys around who get through by just mugging up the answers to mock tests and it seems these are the same questions which appear in the prometric tests.

Maybe I can get hold of them . But guys just study 250 odd questions and get 90% or more. I know how much the know Java and how much they struggle with Java. This is absurd.

Also, In lot of places there are guys who are willing to take up your exams for money . This is what happens. But no body talks about it
 
Taariq San
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Originally posted by Arvin Jason:
I am double certified but I knew the concepts . Now there are guys around who get through by just mugging up the answers to mock tests and it seems these are the same questions which appear in the prometric tests.


I've never seen the same questions from mocks in the actual exam, in fact, I think it's illegal to do that.
Sure you can phrase the question differently and ask the same thing, but that's how you test understanding anyway.


Maybe I can get hold of them . But guys just study 250 odd questions and get 90% or more. I know how much the know Java and how much they struggle with Java. This is absurd.

Who are these guys?
If I told you I know people with degrees who can't code to save their lives, would that prove much?



Also, In lot of places there are guys who are willing to take up your exams for money . This is what happens. But no body talks about it

You're talking about fraud, why talk about it here instead of telling Sun about it? How do you know about this anyway?
In my country, South Africa, it's very easy to get a fake drivers licence, should we stop testing altogether or change anything in the test? No, we just need more people to take the test honestly and for those who know about the fraud to come forward.
BTW, every time I went for a Sun exam, I had to present my ID, which means you'd need a fake ID to pull off what you're suggesting. Why wouldn't someone just fake the certificate?
 
Arvin Jason
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My dear friend , what I meant was that I personally know a few people who have scored 90% or more just by mugging up the mock questions . I agree it would be perfectly nice if the questions change in prometric tests . But it seems they hardly do.

There are also guys like you and me who go through the entire Khalid Mughal or Head first and take the exam . The former approach beats the purpose.

As for cheating , I have reported it to the Prometric center heads and they have kicked out the person responsible for it .

I sincerely want sun to re-organize the SCJP so that they become less predictable [It seems even the code snippets repeat...] so that the certification still hold value.
 
sachin verma
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I AGREE WITH YOU TOO.
I worked very hard. read K&B 5 to 6 times but did not use any so called dumps.
After I came to home and saw the dumps, I was shocked.
Even all multiples choices given and even name of the variables were exactly same.

I do not regrets but I could have score more even near to 100%.

I think sun should have a very huge DB to resolve these kind of problems
 
shan Iyer
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Originally posted by sachin verma:

I think sun should have a very huge DB to resolve these kind of problems


Thats exactly what they will NOT do ! You now have every Tom , Dick and Harry pass these exams , thus generating a huge revenue for Sun.
If questions were not this familiar/easy , who would write these exam and risk loosing their money ?
 
Jesper de Jong
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Originally posted by Taariq San:
I've never seen the same questions from mocks in the actual exam, in fact, I think it's illegal to do that.


It is certainly illegal, and unfortunately there are people and even companies who illegally copy and distribute the questions or even sell them.

Here on JavaRanch we do not accept cheating, and in fact it could get JavaRanch in legal trouble if we would allow people to post questions copied from the real exam. This is one of the main reasons that people must quote their sources when they copy a question from a book or mock exam. Questions from "dumps" are deleted by the moderators.

Originally posted by shan Iyer:
Thats exactly what they will NOT do ! You now have every Tom , Dick and Harry pass these exams , thus generating a huge revenue for Sun.
If questions were not this familiar/easy , who would write these exam and risk loosing their money ?

I do not think that it is in Sun's interest when huge numbers of people do the exam by cheating, and when the market is flooded with people who know nothing about Java but who did pass the exam. It is not in Sun's interest when the SCJP exam is worth nothing.

Note that people who cheat and who really do not know anything about Java will probably make a fool of themselves in a job interview. No company would ever hire programmers solely based on the fact that they have a certificate.
[ June 22, 2008: Message edited by: Jesper Young ]
 
Ninad Kulkarni
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Very Nice Jesper Young
I am agree with your post reply


Regards
Ninad

[ June 22, 2008: Message edited by: Ninad Kulkarni ]
[ June 22, 2008: Message edited by: Ninad Kulkarni ]
 
Ninad Kulkarni
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I think Sun have to revise there policies regarding testing so that
value of SCJP in market is respectable to everyone

Regards
Ninad
 
Taariq San
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Originally posted by Jesper Young:

It is certainly illegal, and unfortunately there are people and even companies who illegally copy and distribute the questions or even sell them.

Here on JavaRanch we do not accept cheating, and in fact it could get JavaRanch in legal trouble if we would allow people to post questions copied from the real exam. This is one of the main reasons that people must quote their sources when they copy a question from a book or mock exam. Questions from "dumps" are deleted by the moderators.


I see, I assumed he meant the mock exams, seems he's privy to some dumps that I missed out on. Ah well, luckily for me it's the journey I enjoy and not the destination.

With that in mind, it's possible to find exam 'dumps' for anything too, heck you can even fake a PhD, but as you sorta said only, fools employ fools based on a piece of paper.

We weed out some of the trash by asking for a solution to a problem typically solved in one of the java.lang classes, for instance I'll ask a junior to reverse a string. I've seen everything from stacks to as close to StringBuffer's reverse as one can get. What I find interesting is their work under pressure, as this is often on the white board and they know they don't have all day and that everyone's watching. We'll talk a bit about the solution and there'll be a bit of prodding about some things I see on the resum´┐Ż, like a certification.

So good luck cheating your way through life. If you're not motivated to pass this exam honestly, you're possibly wasting a big chunk of your life and might do better in another line of work.
 
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