The Blatant Truth

[John Dunn]

From Thomas Paul:
Don't you think that it's odd that someone who has never posted here before decides to post here twice to brag about how well he did with this product. Does anyone really think that the XML certification can be passed with two weeks of preparation? If that were the case then why would anyone even bother taking such an easy exam?
I'm moving this to Blatant Advertising where it belongs.

I Did NOT have 'XML-Sale' relations with THAT company!!!

I hit the 'Post New Topic' instead of 'Post Reply'. So, EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE Me!!! Oh damn, now you all know I'm not perfect.
BTW, I will be sticking to my former 'Post-Reply' as previously stated... and Hey, if its really killing you inside, feel free to check with IBM or Prometric if you doubt anyone's score.
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There's no need to read every book on the XML Links list. It'll be like killing a fly on the wall with a cannon. One of the good books from our past posts or XML Links page, that includes most of the topics, should suffice. (I won't mention any by name.)
You could also use one of the products specifically made for this test, found on our XML Links page. (I won't mention it by name.)
My attitude is do what is necessary for the task at hand, and use the extra time you may have used for over-studying on playing with some hands-on XML project OR some new subjects in the industry. In my opinion, it'll be a more pratical approach and a better use of your time.

[Roseanne Zhang]

Dear Gene Diver
scjp2, scjd, scwcd, scea-I, ibm-xml
To prove Thomas and me were wrong, it would be very simple. Put unmodified your scorecard and all your certificates somewhere on the web, then put a link here.
If you don't have a website, it is time to create one with your real name, real email address as well as all your real great achievements. http://groups.yahoo.com is free, so are many other places. Creating a new website only need about 10 minutes. Scanning your all beautiful certificates only cost a few bucks. Then JavaRanch and Roseanne will owe you an apology for sure.
Now, it is time for action!!! The ranchers will be looking forward to seeing all of them.
Thanks in advance!
Sincerely yours,
Roseanne Zhang

[John Wetherbie]

Gene,
In the past people working for a company have made posts here at JavaRanch praising the company's product while pretending to be just "regular" folks. Your posts, for better or worse, look like they fit this profile. If you aren't doing this you have our sincere apologies.
As an aside- I certainly agree with you that it doesn't appear you have to read all the recommended books, etc., to pass the test.

[John Dunn]

Thanks John.
And Nope, I'm quite legit. I couldn't sell water to a man dying of thirst. I'm just a regular ol' Java Developer currently getting ready for my next gig. It pays for me to pick up as many certifications or new skills during my down-time, so I tried to do as little as possible in order to pass the test. I took a gamble, by not studying much and winged it. I shared my results, only so others could also take advantage of what I discovered, if they chose to do so.
I felt bad using this site - which I happened to have gotten a lot out of - and then not sharing my info with the others. That to me is selfish. In my experience, the BEST topics on all the cert sites I've visited are the ones that folks write after they pass telling us how they did it. If folks only take and don't have anything useful to give back to a site, it will die.
Roseanne, don't hold your breath waiting for that website...

[mary morris]

Gee,I guess one has to be careful. I also mentioned that I thought XML@Whiz was helpful. I also am in "downtime" - was working on XML certificate that stoped to do a website and now am back to preparing the XML cert., and checking out the XML posts.

[John Wetherbie]

Mary,
Good luck in passing the exam. I need to get serious, do some more studying (maybe not as much as I thought ;-)), and set up a test date.

[John Dunn]

Oh Mary, you've blatantly advertised - AGAIN!!!
Why did you do it girl??? Why did you return to this topic when you had the chance to run??? You brave and loyal colleague!!
Dear me, this topic will now be banished to the fires of the bottomless & lonely 'Blatant Advertising' section where alas, it rightfully belongs.
Oh listen... - Can your hear??? I sense a most terrible doom.
[BAM BAM BAM]
I must forever leave - the Thought Police are back and knocking on my front door.
Good luck and GodSpeed...

[Mapraputa Is]

Well, I am not sure how to address you now, after you changed your display name, Eugene or John? Guess, we can go with "Member # 44166" as something more stable...
I am trying to put myself in your shoes. There is a product that helped me so much that I want to share this info with others and to help a good company make more money. Nothing wrong about it. I go to some site and post a message. Moderators accuse me in collaborating with this company and then ask to show at least some evidences that I am are "real". Frankly, I wouldn't be too much offended, but this can be only me, of course. You reacted as you reacted, which is fine. But why to refuse to show "proofs" Roseanne was asking for? You do realize that according to certain shared social assumptions, this can be promptly read as you do not have these proofs? I am trying to put myself in your situation again. Why would I miss a perfect possibility to make my offenders look bad? Next, probably more important, now people may doubt your words and this, of course, affects negatively the company that sells the exam prep tool. I would think that it's a bit selfish for me not to help these guys to restore their good reputation, only because I feel offended.
You may say that you do not have to show any proof, these are accusers who have to proof their accusations. But let's reframe the situation. Most of us here do not have any legal background, we are mostly Computer Science students or graduates. (Except for Roseanne, who according to my best knowledge is physics major ) And in science a burden of proof lies on those who make claims. You claimed that you passed the exam after only 2 weeks of preparation. Thomas doubted it. Roseanne asked you to show proofs, you refused.
I am not going to provide any interpretation, everybody are free to make whatever sense they want make out of it.
----------------------
"Throughout his engagements Chomsky spoke highly of journalists Alex Carey, Alexander Cockburn and John Pilger, amongst others. He strongly criticised people who asked him for guidance in selecting reliable source material, saying on several occasions that, "You have to use your own critical judgement and common sense. I can't tell you and why should you listen to me anyway? I could be lying about all this! That's the wrong question to ask me."
http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id589/pg3/

[John Dunn]

Mapraputa,
Well, I'd like to be Dunn on this site asap (pun intended). I really wanted to use Franz Kafka, "but we hav rules on this site..."
Your Proofs are on the way:
=======================================
SUN:
I Have contacted The SUN Certification Site to send you, Mapraputa Is, my test history,
care of JaveRanch.com
IBM:
Same as above.
As for that website:
I have just realized that none of my scientist colleagues will believe me that my wife is pregnant or that she's pregnant with our child, or that she's even my wife or that we're married, or that we're even who we say we are. (I'll have to build a big website for them first. I got Priorities!!...)
If SUN or IBM won't send you copies, I'll fax my certs to your website. At this point, I can't really prove it only took me two weeks even if I wanted to do so. I can't even think of a realistic way. BUT you can find some honest volunteers to test out my claim and prove it wrong, if you are so against it, instead of resorting to censorship or Jim-Crow-type laws. It would be proactive and positive.
====================================
Think of this, I came to your site, learned of material from your site, used it towards my
success and shared my findings, but my topics get banned. And a good product needlessly jeopardized. I was even responding to one of
your users to help them out!!!
I don't see many other people being locked out until they can build 'Proof' websites. I don't see every topic that mentions a particular book by name being locked. Why is that???
Why the censorship??? I doubt that any of the great authors or publishing companies from
your XML Links page is in favor of censorship or removing free speech that promotes learning so readily - and some of them ARE scientists too!!
Just as well, does one need to be part of a particular class, academic level, or social status to have an equal voice on this forum? The treatment was pretty harsh. I'm not exactly applying for a Nobel Prize here, right? Why didn't anyone take five minutes out
to at least ask SUN or IBM for my test scores?? This is NOT a site to proof a new scientific discovery. It is a site to help others pass a test. In my opinion you cannot a big fan of free speech/press, but folks can draw their own conclusions.
I'm hoping that you, as the sheriff, etc. here, will BLATANTLY endorse my study methods: the XML@Whiz product and WROX's Beginning XML, when you finally receive my credentials. It would be a real show of integrity from your site to undo the all blatant negativity.
-----------------
Without endorsing anything, I'd be bold enough to claim that anyone confident and capable
enough to pass an average college's freshman mid-term in any Math or Science will be able
to pass this test with one good book and some mock tests, if they can find 'em.
(uhhh... Is that bragging or encouragement??)

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot
understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." --Einstein, Albert (a famous scientist)
Folks don't waste time overstudying - move on to the next test/subject!!! You'll be worth more on the open market.


Check these out:
This happened when folks thought some members of society were mistakenly part of a big conspiricy:
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/01622.htm
and more thoughts from Albert Einstein:
"Any organization that destroys itself in order to survive, must necessarily fail."
"The world is too dangerous to live in—not because of the people who do evil, but because
of the people who sit and let it happen."
-Peace

[Mapraputa Is]

Ok, Ok, peace.
Err... Eugene? Is this your name?
"banned", "locked out" -- what do you mean? As far as I know, no power was used against you, only "opposing" posts... "Why the censorship?" - what do you mean? Were your posts deleted or edited? Usually we understand "censorship" in this sense - when moderators delete or edit somebody's posts, but in your case it did not happen? To merely ask for proofs or whatever else is not censorship, since any user in this forum can do it.
Just as well, does one need to be part of a particular class, academic level, or social status to have an equal voice on this forum? The treatment was pretty harsh.
Sorry for that. It has nothing to do with you personally. For one thing, the spirit of this board is more about "learning" than about just "getting certified", so your 2 weeks robbed many wrong way, I am afraid.
I'm hoping that you, as the sheriff, etc. here, will BLATANTLY endorse my study methods: the XML@Whiz product and WROX's Beginning XML, when you finally receive my credentials. It would be a real show of integrity from your site to undo the all blatant negativity.
I promise to post all I'll receive. As for BLATANTLY endorsing your studying methods... I also used WROX's Beginning XML book (although not XML@Whiz) and lots of info on the Internet. Frankly, I do not think "Beginning XML" is the best book, but then, I am afraid the best book about XML isn't written yet, so "Beginning XML" is as good as any. As for XML@Whiz, I do not have anything against this product either, if it helped you - great.
I know I relied on the Internet a lot. Actually, I think, I learnt more on the Internet than from books. (but it was a while ago, and later much of what I read on the Internet became books). You said "There's no need to read every book on the XML Links list" - of course, not. I tried to get people tell which links were most useful, to keep the list short so if you followed some links and you particularly liked something, it would help if you said it.
[ February 06, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]

[ghanshyam sharma]

Hi guys.
You all have messed up my thought process completely.
I used WIZ for my IBM OOAD exam which i cleared first week of january. I did not get any questions from the Whiz itself, but certainly since some questions had resemblance to the questions in the reall exam, it helped me to get my thought process right. Also the explainations for the questions were good.
Now I am debating about buying the Wiz for XML, I read a post some times back saying that it was not helpfull, and now i get posts which say it is helpfull
I dont think one can clear this exam in two weeks especially if he doesnt have a background of working in XML. (I even heard someone clearing it in three days sounds rediculous to me) I have to read the XSLT part more then a few times even to make sense out of it, forget about getting ready for the exam, but then maybe i am one of the duffers and also i caqnt devote more then 1/2 hours a day
I have cleared scea without WIZ (97% in project ) and I have cleared WebLogic Server without Wiz, but my confidence level in XML exam is a little low since i an't using this everywhere as i was doing for the previous technologies...Some sincere advice here would be highly appreciated...

[John Dunn]

ghanshyam,
I had never heard of any IBM certifications or this site, until I read about them on JavaRanch when I was studying for SCJWD back in early January, 2003.
When I checked out this site, and checked out all the XML book in Barnes & Noble, I thought uh-oh, I have no XML working exp & I had better read a beginner book first. Also, a lot of entries pertaining to XML syntax, on this site made me think the test would be super hard.
I'm on the beach now, so I read Beginning XML, ASAP, (first 13 chaps). It is easy reading - high school level and not too dry. I originally did this simply so I could get to the "real" study material - Profession XML. (I haven't touched that, yet...)
As I read Beginning XML, I re-took the ICE test and saw my scores continually go up. (Note - I kept track of the questions I had to guess at, so I could track my improvement also.) Then instead of using another XML book, I took a gamble bought XML@Whiz and I felt it totally, totally helped me. I heard about XML@Whiz on this site. Their tests helped me gauge my time and expose a few weak areas. Their XML scenerios were MUCH harder than the real test, so I benefited from that.
I did not originally plan to do this so quickly, it pretty much just developed.
I came back to report my findings, so folks wouldn't need to waste too much time with this test - if that's what they wanted. (Looking back on some of my past certifications, I now wished I had studied less so I could do some more hands on stuff that would have helped me on the job.)
I've recall entries on the SCEA, and SCJD cert sites, from folks that finished on a quick pace, and those entries prompted me to pick up the pace, and to realize that it was possible not to go crazy.
I've met some pretty fierce and unexpected opposition and doubt, that really threw me for a loop.
I really do not think I'm setting anyone up to fail NOR do I feel I'm being irresponsible. I'm now plan on doing WebLogic 7.0 and looking into Struts and SOAP. This way when I'm working again, I'll have more tools to work with. I'll do some more advanced XML as a future assignment...

[John Dunn]

Mapraputa,
Here's what I mean by censorship, (noted on top of this topic):

posted January 31, 2003 6:50 PM

by Thomas Paul, sheriff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't you think that it's odd that someone who has never posted here before decides to post here twice to brag about how well he did with this product. Does anyone really think that the XML certification can be passed with two weeks of preparation? If that were the case then why would anyone even bother taking such an easy exam?
I'm moving this to Blatant Advertising where it belongs.
[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
--------------------
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University

No one could even get into the topic anymore to dispute this - and lets face it, who will go to 'Blatant Advertising'??
The class privilege bit pertained to the number of entries. If someone visits the site often and is a quiet observer, are their replies less valued?? The way I see it is, if you are successful and working hard towards your goal, you may not be here long.
You said yourself, my not "proving" my scores would probably hurt XML@Whiz and end up being selfish. I've proved my scores, so why do we still have a locked topic for XML@Whiz??
I've come to a few of the forums in this website and have never seen anyone have to prove anything, b/c they said something that the leaders didn't agree with. No one I've ever come across has had to build a website and make their case, just so they can be heard.
This seemed so strange to me. So anti-internet. I felt the topic should have been left open, so anyone could have disputed the facts for all to see.
BTW, XML@Whiz refunds your money if you don't pass. So it doesn't really make me a bad guy to claim that it is a good bargain. I totally think it will give you confidence b/f going in for your test.
This site should be all about sharing that kind of knowledge.

[ghanshyam sharma]

Well John.
I dont think you need to make a case for yourself. I didn't say xml@wiz was a bad product at all. Probably it is the only product (which i know of) which comes somewhat close to the reall exams. Anyway if we get all exam questions in the wiz, then what the hell are we supposed to do in the exam itself ???
And I guess everyone on the forum is smart enough to decide for himself. There are some people who make huge investment for the certifications even if each investment adds up a very little, and ther are those who study only the free material on the net and manage to clear with equal (sometimes better ) scores. So this really doesn't make too much difference. We all have the right to speak of our experience about these products and the reader has a right to believe or not believe us...
Any way thanks to all of you guys. I should go back to my study now
-Sharma

[Mapraputa Is]

I just received a list of John's Sun certifications and it is here:
http://www.javaranch.com/xml/scores.gif
This is good enough proof, I think.
Sorry for suspicions, John.