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Disappointed - Why people do this ?

 
Kodo Tan
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While I'm surfing some of the mps site, I hit upon one personal site from webring that put up the complete solutions for SCJEA Part 2. According to the author, he obtained 95% for his solutions.
I wonder how many people have already accessed the site and it would be very sad if anyone pass SCJEA simply by copying.
I've emailed the owner to remove his solution. Wonder if he would do that.
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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If you can privately send a mail to me regarding this site I will post it in the moderators forum and see what can be done regarding this.
Thanks.
Rahul
 
shailesh sonavadekar
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mps sites ? what's that ?
Kodo , you have done great job. Tell him that as per the privacy agreement of Sun , you can not divuldge the questions. Their attorneys are around. That person can be in trouble.
Thanks for letting us know.
Your Friendly Bartender
Shailesh.
 
Kodo Tan
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Sorry, I have mistyped. It should be mp3 instead of mps sites.
 
Vivek Viswanathan
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This is really very bad posting the entire solution on the net, this totally de-values Sun Certification
Vivek
 
Kodo Tan
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Agreed. That's why I'm so upset and disappointed when I found this site accidentally. Now I don't feel like continuing my Part 2.
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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Kedo,
I have written to Sun about this and lets see what happens. I will be updating you all about this. I think that we all should protect the copyrights regarding certifications so that there is value attached those who are certified. If one ask a guy to tell him the questions that turned up in the examination it should be a frank "No I cannot tell you the questions".
We have invested a lot in these certifications and its these things that hurt.
Thanks for the info.

------------------

Mahindrakar
IBM Application Server Forum Moderator
Consultant - Zensar Technologies.
SCJP2, SCJD2 & SCJEA (Part I)
 
Andy Matthys-Pearce
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What exactly is considered "fair game" in terms of resources on the Web for preparing for the SCEA exam? Clearly a wide variety of information sources are proliferating, some of which violate agreements with Sun and devalue the certification process.
There are mock exams, overviews of individual exam experiences ( with and without details of questions ), and discussion interchanges like this one. I spoke with a SunEd person at JavaOne who clearly discouraged using any "brain dump" material posted on the Net. What is generally considered "brain dump" material vs. legitimate study aid material?
 
faisal mahmood
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Hi,
I guess that's why we have part 1 and 3 to verify your knowledge and experience. Anyone cannot cheat in these parts.
Faisal
 
Kevin Yip
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I just curious - where does our US$250 go? I mean how many hours does a grader takes to grade a Part II assignment if he/she is doing the same job routinely day in and day out. I guess less than half-hour!! (Fact: Two of my professors in the university once told me they never spend more than 1 minute to grade each anwser book of an 3-hour exam!)
I think the biggest problem is Sun have used the same assignment again and again.
Will Sun's administrative cost be increased significantly if they change the assignment regularly?
If yes, it's a dilemma cost we're willing to spend vs. prestige of the certificate.
If no, Sun probably earns a lot in delivering these exam. The only costs are just the one-time capital cost (to set the assignment question) and the subsequent minimal admin. cost. In this case, we don't need to blame anyone who just want to gain a little more competitive edge, perhaps by all possible means, in this competitive world. We know who is to blame if we really want to blame someone.
Kevin
Moon Certificated Philosopher, --just kidding

 
faisal mahmood
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Hi,
I am also disappointment by looking at the discussion at
http://www.javaranch.com/ubb/Forum26/HTML/000606.html
Somebody posted the question on the web. I sent an email to the author of the website and if I don't get a quick response I will inform Sun Microsystems.
Why people do this? Please do something.
Faisal Mahmood
Previous-employee of Sun Microsystems Australia
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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faisal ,
We had a similar problem about the site you are talking about some time back and I had sent a mail to sun. But unfortunately nothing has been done. If you can put in some efforts do do it.

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Mahindrakar
IBM Application Server Forum Moderator

Consultant - Zensar Technologies ,Pune India.
SCJP2, SCJD2 & SCJEA (Part I)
 
Ajit Kumar
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hi Guys,
Has Sun taken any action on posting the assignment solution on the web.
Did you guys try to communicate with him and explain why he should nt do, what he is doing. This is not cool for the solutions to be in open like this. Pretty much we all have been to this stage after our SCJP, SCJD, SCEA part 1 exams. We need to continue to communicate with Sun and/or to the person who has put it on the net till he removes it.
thanks
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
faisal ,

We had a similar problem about the site you are talking about some time back and I had sent a mail to sun. But unfortunately nothing has been done. If you can put in some efforts do do it.

Did you get a reply either from Sun or the site owner? I know that it is a silly question but is the author still alive or a victim of Sept 11? What can we do if the site owner does not reply. I guess Sun will try the samething as we are doing. Maybe Sun can withheld his SCJEA certification - I don't know. In Sydney, Sun Education only provides trainings, but they don't deal with certifications at all.
When I completed SCJP, SCWCD and IBM-UML tests I asked them (then they were just one floor below me) if I qualify for jcert.org level 2 certificate and they could not give me any answer. I still don't know the answer - if anyone knows it please let me know.
Faisal
 
faisal mahmood
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This things devalue all our hardwork and efforts put in.
I will actively do something soon.
Thank you,
Faisal
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Kodo Tan:
Sorry, I have mistyped. It should be mp3 instead of mps sites.


I don't know how mp3 is related to this site and why search engine would pick this one up for keywords like mp3.

Thanks anyway for informing Rahul about this site in the past.
Faisal
[This message has been edited by faisal mahmood (edited November 08, 2001).]
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
faisal ,
We had a similar problem about the site you are talking about some time back and I had sent a mail to sun. But unfortunately nothing has been done. If you can put in some efforts do do it.


Hi Rahul,

The author confirmed that he removed the site from his server. I don't have the URL as it is deleted from the other thread in this forum. So, would you please check if it is really removed and let us know asap.

This is a victory for us!! If anyone finds such materials he/she should inform the moderator and the action will be taken soon. Otherwise you are devaluing yourself.

As java ranchers we would like to help or share ideas in any topic but will not support cheating.

Also, I think Rahul should have taken this matter seriously as in cases like this both part loses - the certification provider and holder. If certification provider does not care then it does not mean that the certification holder does not lose anything.

Thank you for all your support.

Faisal
[This message has been edited by faisal mahmood (edited November 08, 2001).]
 
Ajit Kumar
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you said that the author has confirmed the deletion.
Did he post a message here?
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Ajit Kumar:
you said that the author has confirmed the deletion.
Did he post a message here?

No, I received a personal reply. So, who ever got the URL (most likely Rahul) please check and let me know and I will reply the author and thank him for removing it.
From my perspective nothing should happen (in terms of fine or canceling certification etc) to the author as he responded quickly and this issue was unknown to him. Also, it seems he used it for advertisement on training - which is okay. I mean providing training is okay not using it for advertisement.
Faisal
 
Kodo Tan
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Hi Faisal
Great job !
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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Also, I think Rahul should have taken this matter seriously as in cases like this both part loses - the certification provider and holder. If certification provider does not care then it does not mean that the certification holder does not lose anything.

Hi,
The matter was taken seriously as I myself have invested a lot inthe SCJEA tests. Any how I had written to Sun as well as to the owner of the site and no action was taken.
By the way I just checked up. The pages are still there and have not been removed
Faisal can you forward me the mail to my e-mail ID so that I can look into the matter.
------------------

Mahindrakar
IBM Application Server Forum Moderator

Consultant - Zensar Technologies ,Pune India.
SCJP2, SCJD2 & SCJEA (Part I)
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
Hi,
The matter was taken seriously as I myself have invested a lot inthe SCJEA tests. Any how I had written to Sun as well as to the owner of the site and no action was taken.
By the way I just checked up. [b]The pages are still there and have not been removed

[/B]


The author is meant to remove mainly the assignment section where cheating can be a concern. Leaving the rest of the site has no harm and it would be similar to any other SCJP site.

Rahul, please verify the content of the site by going through every link.

Faisal
[This message has been edited by faisal mahmood (edited November 11, 2001).]
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
Faisal can you forward me the mail to my e-mail ID so that I can look into the matter.

Here is the reply I received from the site owner:
[BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]
 
Christophe Testi
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I still can not beleive that you guys are spending so much time and energy trying to remove a link to the assignment -- which BTW IS NOT THE SOLUTION.
For god sake where is cheating involved here ??? This is sooo ridiculous. There are dozens of thread in this forum where you can find answers that have been asked in the exam, and this should be considered as cheating.
Reusing some architecture from Pet Store this could be also considered as cheating, ... but reading the content of the assignement... please come on ! it's a like reading the objectives of the exam, don't you think ???
Anyway I was glad to had this link to look at the assignement even before I got part 1. That gave me a good idea of what I should expect for part 2.
So in my opinion the problem is not in having this link available or not, the problem is to have SUN creating a set of new assignements, and this is where you should put you efforts into , rather than poluting this forum with dozens of post around a link that contained in my opinion 'the objectives' of the 2nd part.
I hope that in the futur the content level of this forum will improve a little bit...
And yes the link with the assignment has been removed (the link was )http://www.reusablesoftwarecomponents.com/Seminar/index.html)
... but I am sure that they are many other way to get an idea of what the assignement is, like simply asking a friend who got certified
my 2 cents,
-Chris
[This message has been edited by Christophe Testi (edited November 11, 2001).]
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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There are dozens of thread in this forum where you can find answers that have been asked in the exam, and this should be considered as cheating

Testi,
On the Javaranch forums we have tried our best to keep exam questions out. Many a times you will find threads missing or posts edited. However if you still find some please point them out so that they may be removed.
Rahul.
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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SUN creating a set of new assignements, and this is where you should put you efforts into

Hi,
Sun may have a very good reason to do what it is doing so since we do not have the other side of the story we cannot judge based on a one sided affair. To point out one it may be that they may have difficulty grading . There may be many more.
Also by revieling the assignment in such sites is an infringement of the Copyright of Sun Microsystems. So this assignment cannot be shown on any site. This is illegal as per Law.

By the way the link over here states
http://www.reusablesoftwarecomponents.com/Seminar/
"The sample assignment is no longer available due to the legal limitations. Please contact us for the information on training courses towards the Sun Java Enterprise Architect certification"
However the page still exists on this site and has not been taken off. I would like to see this page to be taken off.
------------------

Mahindrakar
IBM Application Server Forum Moderator

Consultant - Zensar Technologies ,Pune India.
SCJP2, SCJD2 & SCJEA (Part I)
[This message has been edited by Rahul Mahindrakar (edited November 15, 2001).]
 
Christophe Testi
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
Testi,
On the Javaranch forums we have tried our best to keep exam questions out. Many a times you will find threads missing or posts edited. However if you still find some please point them out so that they may be removed.
Rahul.

Mahindrakar,
How often do you read this forum ??? Just curious
-Christophe
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
However the page still exists on this site and has not been taken off. I would like to see this page to be taken off.

Well, I agree with you, but you have to find valid and good reason for it. Being "bartender" does not mean that you have the ultimate the power and will
Faisal
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:
However the page still exists on this site and has not been taken off. I would like to see this page to be taken off.


Hi Rahul,

Are there any words or phrases that you can point out that needs to be removed from the site?

I don't think it is possible to take the site of as it is completely under his control and Sun Microsystems would care less. Being harsh will not achieve anything. I sent a friendly email to the site owner so the response was quick.

Faisal
[This message has been edited by faisal mahmood (edited November 17, 2001).]
 
Rahul Mahindrakar
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How often do you read this forum ??? Just curious

As you already know we are volenteers and are working in companies that want to get their work done else they may throw us out. So we do our best.
Faisal,
The assignment page exists on the site. Though the link to the assignment has been removed. It would be nice if this site owner removed the page totally. HE CAN KEEP HIS SITE BUT HE MUST REMOVE THE PAGE CONTAINING THE ASSIGNMENT.

------------------

Mahindrakar
IBM Application Server Forum Moderator

Consultant - Zensar Technologies ,Pune India.
SCJP2, SCJD2 & SCJEA (Part I)
 
faisal mahmood
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Originally posted by Rahul Mahindrakar:

The assignment page exists on the site. Though the link to the assignment has been removed. It would be nice if this site owner removed the page totally. HE CAN KEEP HIS SITE BUT HE MUST REMOVE THE PAGE CONTAINING THE ASSIGNMENT.

Where is the assignment? I could not get to the assignment through links.
Can you please mail me the URL that contains the assignment. Also, try the link yourself before mailing me.
Faisal
 
Certificate Hobby
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Hello.
I am also wondering why SUN always has a single question? Why cant they change their questions?
And about people who are posting the solutions on the net:
Dont we think other exam simualator sites are doing the same?
I passed SCEA by spending my energy and time on it. But I am seeing people who doesnt have time to participate in forums like this, exam simualators are the right way to get into this world of certifications.
Whizlabs.com? There are many like this.. How can a guy who is putting a sample solution for a xxxx system will affect those who are taking the certification? Dont you think, this forums, asking friends, looking at petstores will give a clear picture of what to be present in the solutions? I strongly believe it is illegal to put the exact solution what they did for the exam on the net, but it is always legal to put a sample solution which may or may not reflect the sun's solution on the net. Bcos, how someone knows that "SUN will be giving his sample question as the assignment?" We are living in a world of internet, where solution to any problem is on the reach. I have taken 14 certifications since 1999, but the pain involved in taking new exams are really less bcos you have so many sites to help you out. Ask me how much I was struggling during 1999 to take my 2 exams...
Exams are not to grade your value, but to grade your learning ability. It is to satisfy you but not to show to others...
-Mahesh
 
Appu Chan
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Hi all,
Even I came across a personal website belonging to a guy from Italy who has put his whole scea assignment on his personal website with links to all diagrams and assumptions doc! I feel Sun should look into the matter and de-recognize his SCEA with immediate effect. He is even audacious enough to give his full contact details and Exam registration/candidate id on his site!
Appu.
 
Juan Rolando Prieur-Reza
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Ok, I'll put in my two cents on this sore subject. (1) I wonder if another company, or people with allegience to another technology try to undermine Sun's certifications by posting dysinformation .
(2) If I were making up exams for Sun, I would seek to make each assignment slightly different: include a few key things that are drawn from a large pool of variations, that can serve as a trigger to detect copying between test-takers.
 
Andrew Monkhouse
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Hi Appu,
As mentioned early in this thread, it is a good idea to either contact Sun or the website in question when you notice these sorts of things.
If the website owner is genuinely proud of their achievment, then they may remove the diagrams if they are informed that having them there could help others to pass without studying, which dilutes the value of the website owner's certificate.
Plus having the diagrams there breaks the non disclosure agreement with Sun.
If you want to contact Sun about this, the email address is who2contact@sun.com
Regards, Andrew
 
Andrew Monkhouse
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Hi John,
(2) If I were making up exams for Sun, I would seek to make each assignment slightly different: include a few key things that are drawn from a large pool of variations, that can serve as a trigger to detect copying between test-takers.

That is what Sun have done with the SCJD assignment. In April this year, Sun stoped issuing the "Fly By Night Services, Airline" assignment and started issuing assignments for "Bodgitt & Scarper, Contractors" and "URLy Bird, Hotel Reservations"
Furthermore these new assignments have multiple versions (I think around 6 versions per assignment) with minor differences that you might not notice if you were copying code.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new assignments for J2EE 1.4 had similar small changes - just something to keep people honest.
Regards, Andrew
 
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