J2EE Arch Cert for beginners?

[Con Lu]

I have been studying Java at home for the past year, and am a certified SCJP and SCWCD.
I have had no commercial programming experience,
however have managed to pass both previous exams with 91% pass rate.
The reason why I sat these exams was to improve my opportunities in finding employment as an entry-level programmer. (Note that I am an unemployed civil/structural engineer by profession).
Most jobs in NZ, seem to advertise for J2EE experience, and entry level positions are thin on the ground. My queries are as follows:-
1) Is J2EE Architect Exam P1 possible (like the other 2) to pass without any prior commercial programming experience?
2) Would sitting the exam be worthwhile for an introduction to the subject alone?
3) Is the J2EE Exam book by Bambara and Allen, suitable as an introductory textbook to the subject?
4) I have browsed through Ed Roman's Mastering EJB and Monson-Haefels Enterprise JavaBeans. What other reading do you suggest for sitting the exam?
5) Which freely available J2ee container would you recommend using for personal use?
6) Would passing Part 1 be useful for finding employment?
Much appreciated,
Con

[chris coleman]

1) Is J2EE Architect Exam P1 possible (like the other 2) to pass without any prior commercial programming experience?
In My Opinion Yes.

5) Which freely available J2ee container would you recommend using for personal use?
JBoss, Tomcat, Sun ONE RI, free trial version of Websphere Studio Application Developer 5.

6) Would passing Part 1 be useful for finding employment?
IMO Yes.

[Lionel Port]

Sun has good tutorials on Servlets and JSPs.
If your looking for an introduction into using EJB without a focus towards the exam objectives, the Master EJB book and the EJB design patterns book are very useful books.
Jboss is an excellent j2ee container to develop on. It has a solid EJB container, with either Jetty or Tomcat integrate as the Servlet container.
There is also an integrated database which is good for quick development although you will need a seperate database if the number of records are anything serious.
[ May 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lionel Port ]

[Frank Zheng]

6) Would passing Part 1 be useful for finding employment?
Answer: It at least will give you more chance to get interviews. Whether they give your offer depend on if you could convince them that you know the game and that you could contribute to the team.
[ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: Frank Zheng ]

[Lu Battist]

6) Would passing Part 1 be useful for finding employment?
IMO, not a chance. Your other two certifications should clearly prove you know what you are doing. The J2EE Arch Cert. would add nothing besides another line on your resume. You may have better luck trying to get experience by taking temp work.
But if nothing presents itself, it certainly can't hurt to work towards it in the meantime.
-Good Luck.

[zack ma]

Con Lu, it is not the time for you to take SCEA. It seems like "Ba Miao Zhu Zhang".
Suggestion: try SCJD first.

[Mark Ju]

What does "Ba Miao Zhu Zhang" mean?

[Ashik Uzzaman]

J2EE Arch cert is really not for beginners. Because its unlikely that someone 'll go through the Allen and Bambara's book again and again and will pass
Answers to Questions
1) Yes, possible. Having appeared at least one exam earlier removes psychological barriers. But people who are willing to take SCEA exam are of course a little extra than ordinary.
2) Did not understand the question well.
3) Yes. But I would rather think to go through a general(!?) EJB book like Manson-Heifels EJB from O'Reily or Ed Roman's Mastering EJB, use and deploy some applications, before going to open a certification specific book.
4) I guess you already have browsed through EJB specification from SUN as well.
5) JBoss 3.x
6) Yes.

[Con Lu]

Thanks all for previous input,
What DOES Ba Miao Zhu Zhang mean (I am an overseas born Cantonese!)?
BTW, which skills would be the more commercially applicable for an entry - level programmer?
Those, learned while doing SCJD or SCAE?
It seems to me that experimenting with SCAE would gain me more exposure to commercial containers such as Websphere etc and databases.
SCJD seems to cover the practical basics such as sockets, RMI etc, and gives one the opportunity to apply those skills.
On a job, however, wouldn't it be more likely that having experience with J2EE is more important? I mean when would you be required to write your own database (ala SCJD)?
Of further interest - how stable is SCAE? It seems from reading here that changes are in the wind. What happens if you finish P1 and changes to P2 and 3 are initiated?
Any comments would be appreciated as I am still considering my next move with regards to Sun Java education.
Thanks,

[Titu singh]

hi,
In my opinion u must go for SCEA. It will improve chances in the job mkt. and u will learn J2EE basic with good understanding.
u can learn J2EE without preparing for SCEA, but while preparing for any exam which cost u a lot, u give more attention u even those points which u feel are not important.
And again, SCEA will definitely put more weight age in CV.
best of luck,
titu.

[Doug Wang]

Hi Con,
Reading Manson-Heifels EJB and its workbook for JBoss or WebSphere will get you started.
Good luck!

[Andrew Perepelytsya]

Of further interest - how stable is SCAE? It seems from reading here that changes are in the wind. What happens if you finish P1 and changes to P2 and 3 are initiated?

This is a question that everybody wants to know About a month ago I contacted SunEd (Monica Green) with a query. She told me to take on the exam and do not worry about these issues. Makes you feel more comfortable. Please note that in my query I asked about taking part II somewhere in Aug-Sep 2003, so her answer applies only to this case.
At least we know whom to blame

[Frank Zheng]

What DOES Ba Miao Zhu Zhang mean (I am an overseas born Cantonese!)?

It means helps shoots grow by pulling them upward, which teaches us excessive enthusiasm can spoil things.
For those of you interested in Chinese Idiom, check this link (English):
http://www.storycola.com/free/story1114/default.asp
Enjoy!

[Billy Tsai]

have u started doing SCEA yet?
which city in NZ r u in?

[Christian Ebage]

It seems to me that experimenting with SCAE would gain me more exposure to commercial containers such as Websphere etc and databases.
You can pass the SCEA without experimenting any Application Server,since in the project you are only required to design and and architect a J2EE solution of a business problem, and not develop or deploy.
Ebage
SCJP
SCEA

[Billy Tsai]

I think with SCEA it doesn't mean u know how to program and write codes in EJB or J2EE, so its important to do SCBCD if want to be involved in coding,
I plan to do SCEA part1 then SCBCD then part2 and 3

[Pradeep bhatt]

It would be better if SCBCD is done before SCEA.
My opinion only.

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
I think with SCEA it doesn't mean u know how to program and write codes in EJB or J2EE, so its important to do SCBCD if want to be involved in coding,
I plan to do SCEA part1 then SCBCD then part2 and 3

[noel angel]

Taking and passing Part 1 of the SCEA isn't that difficult given the resources available. Part 2 will be a real challenge for someone with no design experience. It relies heavily on oo system's design with UML. Yes there are patterns which need to be included. If you pass part 1 you are not a SCEA and cannot use the title architect until all three pieces are completed.
Part 1 $150.
Part 2 $250.
Part 3 $150.
That $550.!
This certification does not prove that you can program in JAVA!!!
SCJD does show that you can program in Java and I would want that certification over all of the others from someone who has no experience in Java! I passed doing this cert because I have Java experience and very little Swing has been used in it.
Noel
SCJP, SCWCD, and soon SCEA hopefully!

[Stephen Cowell]

I sat and passed SCEA parts 1,2 & 3 without any commercial experience in Java. Actually I have all 4 Java certs. Since then I've tried to get a Java job with no luck, in fact I can't even get an interview (and I have an IT Masters as well). My opinion, you're wasting your time going for SCEA. Instead use whatever contacts you have to secure an entry level Java position. Without contacts I'm afraid you're pushing sh*t uphill, much like me.

[Billy Tsai]

I am studying for SCEA and SCBCD, and I dont have any contacts at all.
and I only have a bachelor degree not master, so I feel like I am screwed.

[Levent Gurses]

Having a certification does not buy you a ticket to a job interview. It just makes your resume easier to pull from the stack. Just like a college degree does not guarantee a job, a certification on it's own is meaningless. You still have to have your contacts and personal relationships. You still have to maintain your network and polish your resume. Especially in a downturn like this, there is nothing that can get you inside if nobody is hiring. But, once people start hiring, then you almost certanly have a competitive advantage with your certification. Thus, for those of you still thinking about getting certified, why not consider the current bad economy a good opportunity to add something usefull to your resume.
It's not a bedtime story that many consultancy firms hire and market their consultants with thier certifications. It's another form of saying "This is a really, really good guy" to the customer. Customers often find it more reliable if they see a related certificate. Also, for companies employing certified personel, getting new accounts is easier; certified people are more knowlegeble; and at the end it's the company that benefits from this. And last but not the least, for people thinking about starting a business, some extra knowledge will sertainly not hurt. The awarness they gain with a certification, can eventually convert itself into a a major marketing tool for the new company. People working for the company would be encouraged to get certified.
For people having some spare time and money, getting a certification is a no brainer. And hey, what else can we really do today? Start a new company? Write the next cool litte gadget? Or...? Everything is in stand-by mode. Big bosses are scared from us now. People are not waiting for the NBT anymore. Nobody wants to hear about your project, nobody listens your 1-minute "elevator pitch". Investment firms are not even doing their core business anymore. They are struggling with their own problems... And the truth is that the big bucks drive the industry. Once they decide to pour the money back to IT we should be ready to take the shot. Especially people who missed the first wave (..like myself == loser) should think about it seriously.

[Billy Tsai]

the first wave, second wave , third wave, forth wave and so on ..........