Directives to all certified SCEA's
don brown (aka brownie brownie)
Ranch Hand
Posts: 30
posted 11 years ago
I'm doing my own investigation into misconduct and inappropriate use of the interweb to effectively cheat on the SCEA assingment.
In light of that I request that certified SCEA posters :
. Stop posting solutions to direct questions on this list
. Stop posting the content of Part III and/or answers
. Do not answer direct questions about the assignment regarding numbers
of classes, etc
. Do not invite question by reporting your pass marks
. Only give general architectural advice that is not directly applicable to the assignment
If we all follow these rules, the value of the SCEA will increase and we will ALL benefit.
Over and Out.
In light of that I request that certified SCEA posters :
. Stop posting solutions to direct questions on this list
. Stop posting the content of Part III and/or answers
. Do not answer direct questions about the assignment regarding numbers
of classes, etc
. Do not invite question by reporting your pass marks
. Only give general architectural advice that is not directly applicable to the assignment
If we all follow these rules, the value of the SCEA will increase and we will ALL benefit.
Over and Out.
sanjeev mehra
Ranch Hand
Posts: 93
posted 11 years ago
A basic directive by this site is to give real name and you are not following that basic directive and asking other to follow your suggestions.
I totally believe in what you have said but why do you want to hide your identity or feel uncomfortable to share your identity with junior Indian programmers like me.
Naming Policy was suggested to you in other post by other member, but you never followed.
[ May 05, 2006: Message edited by: sanjeev mehra ]
I totally believe in what you have said but why do you want to hide your identity or feel uncomfortable to share your identity with junior Indian programmers like me.
Naming Policy was suggested to you in other post by other member, but you never followed.
[ May 05, 2006: Message edited by: sanjeev mehra ]
Peer Reynders
Bartender
Posts: 2968
6
posted 11 years ago
I realize that Brownie started it � but please stop encouraging Brownie.
Brownie may have acquired an SCEA but apparently Brownie fails to appreciate the more general forces at work for the patterns that Brownie has observed � otherwise Brownie would realize that membership to or association with a particular local region has little or nothing to do with some of the effects observed.
Certain economic shifts have created a strong demand in some parts of the world for people in the IT business and this demand has led to some certifications being grossly overvalued as performance indicators (in those regions) to the point that some people will do anything to obtain these certifications because of the perceived potential to increase their future earnings. Many of these people are in for a shock unless they quickly fill the gaps that they left on the way because they will be found out and suffer the consequences.
The same phenomenon took place in North America in the period before the dot-com bust. Many a Tom, Dick, and Harry obtained employment in areas they had little or no competence in. Initially they may have made some good money but most of them were either eventually let go �or- made a significant contribution to the demise of the organization that hired them.
Anybody outside of the regions enjoying this boom (possibly feeling a slight bit resentful) should have a good look over Chad Fowler's book if they intend to stay in this business. Even if you are inside one these regions a look would not hurt � it gives many tips on how to differentiate oneself from the all the imposters.
Originally posted by sanjeev mehra:
with junior Indian programmers like me.
I realize that Brownie started it � but please stop encouraging Brownie.
Brownie may have acquired an SCEA but apparently Brownie fails to appreciate the more general forces at work for the patterns that Brownie has observed � otherwise Brownie would realize that membership to or association with a particular local region has little or nothing to do with some of the effects observed.
Certain economic shifts have created a strong demand in some parts of the world for people in the IT business and this demand has led to some certifications being grossly overvalued as performance indicators (in those regions) to the point that some people will do anything to obtain these certifications because of the perceived potential to increase their future earnings. Many of these people are in for a shock unless they quickly fill the gaps that they left on the way because they will be found out and suffer the consequences.
The same phenomenon took place in North America in the period before the dot-com bust. Many a Tom, Dick, and Harry obtained employment in areas they had little or no competence in. Initially they may have made some good money but most of them were either eventually let go �or- made a significant contribution to the demise of the organization that hired them.
Anybody outside of the regions enjoying this boom (possibly feeling a slight bit resentful) should have a good look over Chad Fowler's book if they intend to stay in this business. Even if you are inside one these regions a look would not hurt � it gives many tips on how to differentiate oneself from the all the imposters.
Pranav Srinivasan
Greenhorn
Posts: 8
posted 11 years ago
Disregarding the Naming Policy, brownie brownie does make a valid point.
SCEA should become something like Microsoft Certified Architect Program involving 8 step process, presentation, review etc.
[ May 05, 2006: Message edited by: Pranav Srinivasan ]
SCEA should become something like Microsoft Certified Architect Program involving 8 step process, presentation, review etc.
[ May 05, 2006: Message edited by: Pranav Srinivasan ]
Ricardo Ferreira
Ranch Hand
Posts: 156
posted 11 years ago
Hi Everyone,
I think that this forum really need an active moderator to monitor this posts.
First, Any guy that frequents this forum, even that alrady have passed in the SCEA exam should know the real value of knowledge. If you think that you will be a good professional because you�re SCEA, come on, don�t be a child. Companys wants to admit real architects.
The real point is: WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THE SCEA ?
If you are so much worried about this, try to forget the certification, and start to study the thousands of technologies that an real architect must know. If you�re a good professional, have an good experience, you�re an architect, you don�t need the SCEA.
You have forgot the real value of this forum: Share knowledge about J2EE for the certification porpouses. Doesn�t matter if you post a very basic question, a very hardcore question, or an specific question about the assignment. Help the others.
But, regardless the forum aspect, lern something very right: YOU WILL NEVER BE AN ARCHITECT, IF YOU NEVER HAVE CREATED AN SOLUTION FOR AN COMPANY USING UML AND J2EE. EVEN HAVING THE SCEA CERTIFICATION.
Do you know James Goslin ? The java plataform creator ? It is funny to say that has not the SCEA certification. But he is an real architect. Martin Fowler, Grady Booch, Ivan Jacobson, do not have any certifications (neither Rational, IBM or Sun). But they are real architects.
To be an architect, you don�t need the SCEA, so STOP TO CRYING LIKE A CHILD!
I have passed in the SCEA certification, but I really would like to help other peoples.
I think that this forum really need an active moderator to monitor this posts.
First, Any guy that frequents this forum, even that alrady have passed in the SCEA exam should know the real value of knowledge. If you think that you will be a good professional because you�re SCEA, come on, don�t be a child. Companys wants to admit real architects.
The real point is: WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THE SCEA ?
If you are so much worried about this, try to forget the certification, and start to study the thousands of technologies that an real architect must know. If you�re a good professional, have an good experience, you�re an architect, you don�t need the SCEA.
You have forgot the real value of this forum: Share knowledge about J2EE for the certification porpouses. Doesn�t matter if you post a very basic question, a very hardcore question, or an specific question about the assignment. Help the others.
But, regardless the forum aspect, lern something very right: YOU WILL NEVER BE AN ARCHITECT, IF YOU NEVER HAVE CREATED AN SOLUTION FOR AN COMPANY USING UML AND J2EE. EVEN HAVING THE SCEA CERTIFICATION.
Do you know James Goslin ? The java plataform creator ? It is funny to say that has not the SCEA certification. But he is an real architect. Martin Fowler, Grady Booch, Ivan Jacobson, do not have any certifications (neither Rational, IBM or Sun). But they are real architects.
To be an architect, you don�t need the SCEA, so STOP TO CRYING LIKE A CHILD!
I have passed in the SCEA certification, but I really would like to help other peoples.
Ricardo Ferreira,<br /> <br />Sun Certified Enterprise Architect<br />IBM Certified SOA Solution Designer<br />IBM Certified RUP v7.0 Solution Designer<br />IBM Certified Specialist for RUP v2003
don brown (aka brownie brownie)
Ranch Hand
Posts: 30
posted 11 years ago
That's nonsense. You are saying you can't be an architect unless you have implemented a system using J2EE/UML. That's nonsense. Those are tools to make the implementation easier. The architecture should be independent of those tools and expressable in other notations and technologies.
The whole certification process is mainly a waste of time. It's a ploy by Sun (and Microsoft, and IBM, etc) to generate money off the back of the rush into Software Development careers due to the skills shortage. It only has value to the person doing the certification in that it improves levels of confidence which is useful for interviewing. To an employer, it's useless because anybody can pass an exam of that nature. Especially one that is done under no time pressure with an open forum in which to discuss the one and only assignment question, like SCEA. It's not exactly a B.Sc in Computer Science is it.
Thirdly, I don't think most programmers can step up to the level of architect. I've seen people in Architect positions that shouldn't be and they have sunk projects due to ego and over estimation of their own abilities. I include myself in this category. I'm going to remain a programmer until I leave the I.T. industry.
Know your place and place your nose, yo.
The whole certification process is mainly a waste of time. It's a ploy by Sun (and Microsoft, and IBM, etc) to generate money off the back of the rush into Software Development careers due to the skills shortage. It only has value to the person doing the certification in that it improves levels of confidence which is useful for interviewing. To an employer, it's useless because anybody can pass an exam of that nature. Especially one that is done under no time pressure with an open forum in which to discuss the one and only assignment question, like SCEA. It's not exactly a B.Sc in Computer Science is it.
Thirdly, I don't think most programmers can step up to the level of architect. I've seen people in Architect positions that shouldn't be and they have sunk projects due to ego and over estimation of their own abilities. I include myself in this category. I'm going to remain a programmer until I leave the I.T. industry.
Know your place and place your nose, yo.
Samuel Pessorrusso
Ranch Hand
Posts: 164
posted 11 years ago
Sorry but if you are not here to help, take your way.
I have a friend in my company that is starting the SCJD project. He has not got the knowledge to complete the assignment but I'm helping him to reach a good solution. I don't think that is cheat, I'm not giving him the entire solution, I'm just showing the way AND THAT IS WHAT A GOOD PROFESSIONAL DOES.
The person that doesn't share will never become a good professional, you should know that.
If everybody had held all the knowledge, we would still be at the Stone Age.
Oh! And just to flame a little bit. I don�t like prejudice and I don�t see any problem with India.
Regards
Samuel
[ May 06, 2006: Message edited by: Samuel Pessorrusso ]
I have a friend in my company that is starting the SCJD project. He has not got the knowledge to complete the assignment but I'm helping him to reach a good solution. I don't think that is cheat, I'm not giving him the entire solution, I'm just showing the way AND THAT IS WHAT A GOOD PROFESSIONAL DOES.
The person that doesn't share will never become a good professional, you should know that.
If everybody had held all the knowledge, we would still be at the Stone Age.
Oh! And just to flame a little bit. I don�t like prejudice and I don�t see any problem with India.
Regards
Samuel
[ May 06, 2006: Message edited by: Samuel Pessorrusso ]
Ramen Chatterjee
Ranch Hand
Posts: 62
posted 11 years ago
Hi
Hope that this is something that can be put aside quickly. I am (probably as many here) an IT professional. I consider myself a competent developer, senior developer if titles matter. I am studying the SCEA for 2 reasons. Firstly, it has allowed me to think about my job in a different way. That is to consider more than just the code, or the component, or even the application, but the solution as a whole.
I have spent many hours in this pursuit. I am sure that I could have now passed with less effort, but where is the value in just passing? I want to know my subject. Anyone that just wants to pass will undoubtedly be found out sooner or later.
When I do pass, will this make me an architect? Absolutely not, and frankly the thought is ridiculous, which brings me to my second point. I am taking the certification to show my current (and any future) employer that this is wherew I want to go, I take my career seriously and would like you to recognise my efforts and give me the opportunity to realise my ambitions.
To the first poster, I sincerely hope that you are not trolling and are voicing (in my opinion) misguided concerns. It would be possible to cheat many things using the internet, dissitations, etc. Pass many things off as your own work, perhaps. But, if you dont know your subject you will be found out and you will only have cheated yourself.
Places like Javaranch offer a good support network for many people who want to learn, it is a shame if you wont recognise that.
Regards
Ramen
Hope that this is something that can be put aside quickly. I am (probably as many here) an IT professional. I consider myself a competent developer, senior developer if titles matter. I am studying the SCEA for 2 reasons. Firstly, it has allowed me to think about my job in a different way. That is to consider more than just the code, or the component, or even the application, but the solution as a whole.
I have spent many hours in this pursuit. I am sure that I could have now passed with less effort, but where is the value in just passing? I want to know my subject. Anyone that just wants to pass will undoubtedly be found out sooner or later.
When I do pass, will this make me an architect? Absolutely not, and frankly the thought is ridiculous, which brings me to my second point. I am taking the certification to show my current (and any future) employer that this is wherew I want to go, I take my career seriously and would like you to recognise my efforts and give me the opportunity to realise my ambitions.
To the first poster, I sincerely hope that you are not trolling and are voicing (in my opinion) misguided concerns. It would be possible to cheat many things using the internet, dissitations, etc. Pass many things off as your own work, perhaps. But, if you dont know your subject you will be found out and you will only have cheated yourself.
Places like Javaranch offer a good support network for many people who want to learn, it is a shame if you wont recognise that.
Regards
Ramen
Could try harder
Sreenivasa Majji
Ranch Hand
Posts: 224
posted 11 years ago
Totally agree with Ramen.
However I cannot help a person thinks like programmer and want to become an architect. If you think like a programmer, be a programmer. If you want to become an architect, step up the plate and read more technology stuff (there is lot on the internet) and think like an architect.
If you want just pass the SCEA and put that certifacation on resume and earn some $$, that's fine with me. But don't expect any kind of answer from myside.
Being said that, I will contribute to a post where there the poster honestly tried something and willing to learn the craft of the architecture.
However I cannot help a person thinks like programmer and want to become an architect. If you think like a programmer, be a programmer. If you want to become an architect, step up the plate and read more technology stuff (there is lot on the internet) and think like an architect.
If you want just pass the SCEA and put that certifacation on resume and earn some $$, that's fine with me. But don't expect any kind of answer from myside.
Being said that, I will contribute to a post where there the poster honestly tried something and willing to learn the craft of the architecture.
Sreenivasa Majji
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