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India Election 2004

 
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Originally posted by jyothi godavarthy:

Wasn't your friend a stranger to you before u made friends with him/her.Don't you have any friends who are foreigners.


sure...one can have foreigner friends who can be trusted. But why risk the whole country for ur trust? Whats is the guarantee that this friend of urs would not betray the country just because u trust him so much?
 
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Originally posted by jyothi godavarthy:

Wasn't your friend a stranger to you before u made friends with him/her.Don't you have any friends who are foreigners.


Making friendship does not mean that I am going everything with him.
 
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


We could have a Pakistani person become Army chief tomorrow.
Why should the rule be removed,it must be extended to PM as well.


Lets not take things to extremes.
No one will support appointing someone with Pakistan with bad intentions and connections to ISI etc to a senior position in India. But we are not talking about someone from a hostile country in particular.
Well, let me try it this way �our President, imagine if he was born in Pakistan, but later did all he did in India, worked his way up thru the system, applied his brilliant mind, knowledge and skills improving our defence programs many fold and over and over proves his loyalty towards India. Would you still have an issue him being President of India, just because he was born in Pakistan? (Oh yeah, I don�t know if our President fits certain �definition� of Indian, as he is Tamil, and lived in Kerala most of his life, I am not sure if he speaks Hindi fluently!)
I am repeating myself here � all I am trying to say is one should be considered for a crucial position, if he or she deserves it, if he or she is going to do good for the country � irrespective of what the origin of the individual is!
Rashmi, If Mother Teresa and charity is incomparable to National security, consider Nelson Mandela, if he somehow was to help India somehow (in power or not) I wouldn�t mind risk voting twice !
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

Can u provide with the link? i could not find one


I dont have the link. I read the newspaper, usually I buy Deccan Herald but it was not available so got NewIE on Saturday.
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

sure...one can have foreigner friends who can be trusted. But why risk the whole country for ur trust? Whats is the guarantee that this friend of urs would not betray the country just because u trust him so much?


Hmmm, I must admit, I fail to see any connection between trust and of 'foreign origin'. Are you suggesting that people of foreign origin are less trustworthy than Indians? Or a person of Indian origin is trustworthy by default?
Well, I wouldn�t buy that argument, and in fact, it sounds quite a racist comment to me, to be honest.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Lets not take things to extremes.


As far security is concerned you need to think in this way.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Well, let me try it this way �our President, imagine if he was born in Pakistan, but later did all he did in India, worked his way up thru the system, applied his brilliant mind, knowledge and skills improving our defence programs many fold and over and over proves his loyalty towards India. Would you still have an issue him being President of India, just because he was born in Pakistan? (Oh yeah, I don�t know if our President fits certain �definition� of Indian, as he is Tamil, and lived in Kerala most of his life, I am not sure if he speaks Hindi fluently!)


If he was born in Pakistan before independence and moved to India during partition he is an Indian. I dont care whether he understands Hindi or not.
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
As far security is concerned you need to think in this way.


Oh, I agree! However, when we are talking about letting a 'person of foreign origin' into high offices, its just a technicality � the selection of the actual person in question will still have to go through people's vote or some approval board/panel or whatever, which automatically rules out the chances of such 'extreme cases' getting into the senior positions, don�t you think?!
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
If he was born in Pakistan before independence and moved to India during partition he is an Indian.


And whats the supposed to prove? Just because the place of his birth was called 'India' (at the time of his birth), he is automatically supposed to be super-loyal to the today�s India?
I hope you see the flaw in your argument!
 
Rashmi Tambe
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Lets not take things to extremes
Ashok, this isn't extreme. U r thinking of a very ideal situation.
*** Person having foreign origin...
*** Did so muck for india
*** worked hard for solving the problem
*** has very right intentions abt india
*** having all the skills
Have u thought of the side effects ? if this rule is removed...if anybody irrespective of origin can become an army chief...
don't u think that this facility could be misused by the ppl? do u trust the system so much? that the system would always
appoint only a good intention foreigner to that post? who check his intention? how to verify them? the point here
is removing such rules would lead to its misuses ....
, if he or she is going to do good for the country – irrespective of what the origin of the individual is!
there is no way u can judge the individual's intentions...so why take risk? I again repeat, this is not TRIAL-AND-ERROR game...
consider Nelson Mandela, if he somehow was to help India somehow (in power or not) I wouldn’t mind risk voting twice
with due respect to mandela, I would not vote him ...cause tomorrow it could be saddam hussain pretending to help out india...
basic point here...u have to draw some lines ...some where... u cannot apply gandhiji's principle..."I care for entire mankind"
this isn't practical...
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
How do you guys like idea about Chandrababu Naidu becoming PM of India? Preferably sooner, not after nother 15years...
I think he's one person who could bring about some changes,, somebody who can make a diference.
- Manish


Let him become CM first. The Week and NDTV predicts victory for Congress+TRS.
 
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
Whats is the guarantee that this friend of urs would not betray the country just because u trust him so much?


ho ho ....
What is the Gaurantee that your local friend will not betray you.
And I think India should get ministers from outside, atleast after watching Tehlka, Amma's wardrobe and Lalu's daughter's marriage .
 
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I agree with Ashok. I read in this same thread that she was a waitress and so she shouldnt be pm all blah. Those comments are really laughable. Who cares for all those stuff. In fact Menaka was a third rate model before she got married. Rahul gf is a Srilankan so, she is human being rt. If we all say "we are all citizens of the world" , then this world would have been another world rt?. When you compare Sonia and Menaka you will notice that Sonia is more matured and always behaved in a matured way. 99.9% percent of indian politicans are corrupted and selfish. So basically noone is good.
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Sonia has a house in Italy and not in India. She says she will for her mother land, which mother land is she talking about? Italy I guess.


So lot of other politicians also have property outside India. Atleast she posses it legally.
Tomorrow Rahul Ghandi s Colombian GF child will also be eligble for PMs post.

Whats wrong in that ??
 
Rashmi Tambe
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I fail to see any connection between trust and of 'foreign origin'. Are you suggesting that people of foreign origin are less trustworthy than Indians? Or a person of Indian origin is trustworthy by default?
what i mean is: for such a crucial matter or post, u cannot trust a foreign origin person...cause as i said earlier,
u cannot judge the intentions of a person when it comes issues like national secuirty...
i dont say that person of Indian origin is trustworthy by default...i again repeat ...risk involved is low.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

And whats the supposed to prove? Just because the place of his birth was called 'India' (at the time of his birth), he is automatically supposed to be super-loyal to the today�s India?


Exactly. It is possible that he could turn out to be rotten apple.

I hope you see the flaw in your argument!


Yes, there is a flaw but a smaller one and this could be exploited. There is nothing in the world which is 100 % secure.
You argument can be compared to keeping the door of the house wide open since you trust every one.
I will lock my house, yes it is possible for the lock to broken.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by R K Singh:

ho ho ....
What is the Gaurantee that your local friend will not betray you.
And I think India should get ministers from outside, atleast after watching Tehlka, Amma's wardrobe and Lalu's daughter's marriage .



Sonia as a house wife interfered with the functioning of RAW.
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
I stongly feel that Being an indian, if u do not even u'stand the national language appointed by constitution, then u r not eligible for contesting the election, even if u r "by birth" indian.


I will extend your feelings. I feel if u do not even u'stand the 15 (or more) Indian languages recognised by constitution, then you are not eligible for contesting

I think it will help us, all politician will be having language courses all over life, Atleast this way we can gaurantee that we wil have educated politicians
 
Rashmi Tambe
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You argument can be compared to keeping the door of the house wide open since you trust every one. I will lock my house, yes it is possible for the lock to broken.
I completely agree with u pradeep...u have summerized e'thing in just 1 statement...incredible
 
sunitha reghu
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So does it mean that you eat only indian products,driving made in india car,
wearing indian dresses, working for a company whose "clients are"ONLY" indians"
only indian drinks, never tasted coke or pepsi in ur life. only indian sweets and only indian movies ?
just curious???/

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
Lets not take things to extremes
Ashok, this isn't extreme. U r thinking of a very ideal situation.
*** Person having foreign origin...
*** Did so muck for india
*** worked hard for solving the problem
*** has very right intentions abt india
*** having all the skills
Have u thought of the side effects ? if this rule is removed...if anybody irrespective of origin can become an army chief...
don't u think that this facility could be misused by the ppl? do u trust the system so much? that the system would always
appoint only a good intention foreigner to that post? who check his intention? how to verify them? the point here
is removing such rules would lead to its misuses ....
, if he or she is going to do good for the country – irrespective of what the origin of the individual is!
there is no way u can judge the individual's intentions...so why take risk? I again repeat, this is not TRIAL-AND-ERROR game...
consider Nelson Mandela, if he somehow was to help India somehow (in power or not) I wouldn’t mind risk voting twice
with due respect to mandela, I would not vote him ...cause tomorrow it could be saddam hussain pretending to help out india...
basic point here...u have to draw some lines ...some where... u cannot apply gandhiji's principle..."I care for entire mankind"
this isn't practical...

 
sunitha reghu
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What about other indian politicans?
Mayawati, lalloo, jayalitha................so there is no validity in that argument.

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


Sonia as a house wife interfered with the functioning of RAW.

 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
I think you need to read the NewIndianExpress dated 17th April about Sonia interfering in RAW activities when she was just a *house wife*. What will she do when she becomes PM?


I have not read that paper, neither have time to read now .
But I can guess what could have been written, hmm.. sort of smuggling imp papers or something like that.
Mother Teresa also had similer allegations before she got Noble prize
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
So does it mean that you eat only indian products,driving made in india car,
wearing indian dresses, working for a company whose "clients are"ONLY" indians"
only indian drinks, never tasted coke or pepsi in ur life. only indian sweets and only indian movies ?
just curious???/



Buy what you like, does not matter who manufactures it. I like imported products very much. I am not rich to but them though.
 
Rashmi Tambe
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Originally posted by R K Singh:

I will extend your feelings. I feel if u do not even u'stand the 15 (or more) Indian languages recognised by constitution, then you are not eligible for contesting


there is difference between language recognised by constitution and official national language! If u dont know ur national language, and still say that its perfectly all right...then i am very sorry...i have no words to defend that...
The problem lies in ur thinking process, which can not be changed. for such an opinion, its hard to fight cause its like banging ur head on wall...
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
What about other indian politicans?
Mayawati, lalloo, jayalitha................so there is no validity in that argument.


It becomes more dangerous when she is in contact with Italian spies.(As mentioned in the news paper)
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
When the post of army chief is not permitted to be occupied by person of foreign origin how can a PM post be occupied by PFO?


Is it about persons nationality or person being foreigner.
Why dont we become country like UAE, where no outsider can get citizenship ever :roll:
Oh we are very much close to close all windows to world and live happily in closed place. Doesnt it sound like fanaticism.
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
You argument can be compared to keeping the door of the house wide open since you trust every one. I will lock my house, yes it is possible for the lock to broken.



Wrong analogy there, Pradeep. Let me put it this way � you are insisting that you will employ familiar (but inferior) Indian workers to build your house, even if there�s excellent trusted foreign expertise available at the same rate � I built a house with their expertise, and come next monsoon, you are not sure if you should check into a hotel or should come and visit me till the rain is over!
 
sunitha reghu
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There you go

Buy what you like, does not matter who manufactures it.


then why arguing Sonia's nationality??? If i rephrase it it will be like this doesnt matter the nationality rt?

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


Buy what you like, does not matter who manufactures it. I like imported products very much. I am not rich to but them though.


 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
I am against Sonia, not only because she is a foreigner, but also because she is not capable, not mature enough to be at that position. ........ Origin is one of most important issues.


Decide what is your turning issue?? Not being capable or being foreigner ?
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


Wrong analogy there, Pradeep. Let me put it this way � you are insisting that you will employ familiar (but inferior) Indian workers to build your house, even if there�s excellent trusted foreign expertise available at the same rate � I built a house with their expertise, and come next monsoon, you are not sure if you should check into a hotel or should come and visit me till the rain is over!


You seem to be digressing from what I have said.
 
sunitha reghu
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So many of indian politicans have connection with underground world. So many bjp leaders are connected to Dawood Ibrahim.

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

It becomes more dangerous when she is in contact with Italian spies.(As mentioned in the news paper)

 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
There you go


I knew that you will bring up this point
National security is all together different issue. US does not outsource project which will cause securtiy concern, right? Security cannot be compromised.
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
If u dont know ur national language, and still say that its perfectly all right...then i am very sorry...i have no words to defend that... The problem lies in ur thinking process, which can not be changed.


Well, may be you should think with your brain than with your heart, Rashmi! Everyone speaking a national language and all fits the �nationalistic� idea, but whom are we kidding?
Lets see, if where would I use Hindi? Next visit to India, I would enter via Bombay or Delhi, and all the officials seems to speak English there. Transit to domestic airport by Jet Airways coach � English again �Domestic Airport � Oh, English again � in the flight? Oh no, English will do � in Cochin Airport? Ah O, English again � (or Malayalam if I fancy!). Major national media, PM�s address, Presidents speech, well, just about everything is in English! At work? Government offices? Tax forms? Utility bills? University? Passport? Train station? They all use English, how dare they?!!
Tell me one good compelling reason to brush up my Hindi skills again?
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
So many of indian politicans have connection with underground world. So many bjp leaders are connected to Dawood Ibrahim.


Choose the lesser evil.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by R K Singh:
[QB]
Is it about persons nationality or person being foreigner.
Why dont we become country like UAE, where no outsider can get citizenship ever :roll:
QB]


 
sunitha reghu
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see so many indians are migrating, migrated to other countries. NRI s contributed, contributing a lot to indian economy. These countries can always shut their doors to indians because of security reasons . How can they trust us. rt now you not trusting Sonia saying that she is an italin. So these countries can say the same thing to indians or can even ask them to leave rt? Hope you got my point?
 
sunitha reghu
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Tell me who has lesser evil?

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

Choose the lesser evil.

 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
see so many indians are migrating, migrated to other countries. NRI s contributed, contributing a lot to indian economy. These countries can always shut their doors to indians because of security reasons . How can they trust us. rt now you not trusting Sonia saying that she is an italin. So these countries can say the same thing to indians or can even ask them to leave rt? Hope you got my point?


Can any person of foreign become US President?
No.
 
Ashok Mash
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I understand the concerns around National security that Rashmi and Pradeep are emphasising, and I do agree with them that its important that the right kind of people does that sort of job, and �hiring� someone to do that job just because they are �fit� for the job, wouldn�t be sufficient � there�s always the question of trust.
My point again is, as long as the selection of the right candidate is through an extensive process like that of our election system, or something similar, only the extremely trustworthy, deserving person would ever reach there (others would just get filtered away in the process, like Sonia Gandhi for eg.!), but if a person survives the tests, wins publics approval (that says it all, eligible, capable etc) he or she should not be denied the position just because he or she is not of Indian origin. If he or she was to be discriminated against, that�s racist, protectionist and extremely unfair and such a system is turning their back towards progress.
Peace!
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

Can any person of foreign become US President?
No.



Ha! At last someone asked that question � I have been expecting this one for a while now!
Answer is no. In the USA a person who is not born in America can not be their President, and that is wrong!
However, they have a brilliant immigration system to attract right sort of people, great �melting-pot� community and most importantly the great first world economy to attract the best of the world. That kind of compensates to that technical glitch (!!), but lets face it, America may be successful nation and the only super power, they that doesn�t make them automatically correct � That policy of theirs is wrong, IMHO, and I am very confident that they will change, sooner or later!
PS: Its a whole different discussion, and I don't have enough know-how to comment on their system in detail!
[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
 
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