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Future of Beans?

 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Hi,
After SCJP I am planing to got for SCBCD certification. Please tell me what is the future after it? Which one is good SCJD or SCBCD?
Please suggest.
Regards,
Damodar.
 
Darya Akbari
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I would do SCJD first. It takes you longer than preparing for SCBCD but during the creation of your solution you learn a lot. Since SCJD is based on an assignment for some distributed application you will have to use RMI.

The RMI understanding will become helpful again in your preparation for SCBCD because EJB uses RMI.

Regards,
Darya
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Thanks for your suggestion...
Actually I asked you in the IT Market aspect...
Which one will be beneficial?
 
Darya Akbari
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I still recommend first SCJD and then SCBCD. So your learning curve can build on the previous cert.

However when you are desperate to get a J2EE job than yes go for SCBCD first.

It depends where you like to go. You could also do SCWCD first when you plan only for Web GUIs. However, personally I like SCBCD more because it's right here where you learn the important stuff for implementing business processes in an enterprise application.

Once you have this EJB barrier crossed it's relatively easy to put a Swing GUI or Web GUI to that application.

So I would prefer SCBCD first. But only in case you are desperate for a job.

Don't underestimate the value of SCJD. This will strongly influence your overall Java development abilitty. Here you learn to play with different aspects of software development like developing a distributed application, like the use of patterns, like to do Swing GUI programming, like to document your application, like to behave socially correct in a team, etc.

To me from all Sun certs I did so far SCJD was the most impressive one.

SCBCD and SCWCD are also definitely essential if you want get into J2EE development.

My learning curve was SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD and is actually preparing for SCEA.

Regards,
Darya
 
Ulf Dittmer
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My impression is that EJB is not so hot in the market, and thus the value of an exam that's mostly about EJB isn't too great. The SCJD has the benefit of being more general in nature, and of proving actual development experience.
 
Deepak Bala
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actual development experience.


That is true. The exam asks you to do things a developer might do in his day to day work
 
william gates
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Get what certifications you want to and learn as much as you can.. But also don't become one of those people who do nothing but get new certifications.

It starts to look like all you do is prepare for certifications rather than actually do any real programming or engineering or managing and so on.
 
Darya Akbari
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Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
My impression is that EJB is not so hot in the market, and thus the value of an exam that's mostly about EJB isn't too great.


My impression is just the opposite . I would like to see more people with SCBCD than those who taught themself EJB. Those people often tend to misuse EJB and use workarounds for EJB stuff they never understood.
 
Darya Akbari
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Originally posted by william gates:
It starts to look like all you do is prepare for certifications rather than actually do any real programming or engineering or managing and so on.


Well, it's good to be well prepared before entering the theater. Hence having done SCJD and SCBCD is much worth the effort.

Only real project programming does not mean that you become good at it. You can still produce lot of rubbish when you don't take the time and learn things the right way .



Regards,
Darya
 
Bryan Aho
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Education + Experience = Excellence

When you get certified in technology you actually use, you benefit greatly. You understand things much better than when you 'just want to make it work'.

Certifications in technology that you don't actually work with aren't that helpful, unless you intend to utilize that technology in the future.
 
Ulf Dittmer
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Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
My impression is that EJB is not so hot in the market...


To which Darya Akbari responded:
My impression is just the opposite.


Goes to show that one needs to research the job market one wants to enter before deciding how to prepare for it.

Darya Akbari also said:
Hence having done SCJD and SCBCD is much worth the effort.


The value of certifications in general also depends a good deal on the job market in which they're used. The proliferation of certifications has caused them to lose value in some markets, while in others they never had much value to begin with.
 
Shawn Vader
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To add my 2 cents to the debate, I work in Investment banking in the UK and we are mostly re-writing our enterprise applications to smaller light weight frameworks like Spring which have had such good success with over the last two years.

I would advise you to think about what industry you want to work in and find out what the trend in the industry is with regards to Enterprise/EJB. I would say do your SCJD and then start working (if you are not) and then decide on your SCBCD. The more the better but there is nothing like experience!

Shawn
[ April 08, 2007: Message edited by: Shawn Vader ]
 
Darya Akbari
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Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
The proliferation of certifications has caused them to lose value in some markets, while in others they never had much value to begin with.


If I have to chose between two equal person one w/ cert and one w/o cert, I take the one with cert .
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Thank you all for your valuable suggestions, but sorry to say you that now I am more confused

First of all I want to express you what I want.... I want a good job with good salary and whose future is also good. I am a good programmer and have 1 year IT experience, Now Please suggest me a suitable java certification after SCJP.
 
Darya Akbari
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Do SCJD first .
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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But some are saying to do SCWCD!!!
What is the future of it?
 
Darya Akbari
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But here everyone favorized SCJD first . SCBCD and SCWCD is important when you want get involved with J2EE.

Why don't you do them all .

Regards,
Darya
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Ok so the conclusion is that I should do SCJD first then the others. Is'nt it?
 
Ulf Dittmer
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Originally posted by Damodar Mukherjee:
Ok so the conclusion is that I should do SCJD first then the others. Is'nt it?


Well, the SCWCD wasn't really discussed at all. That would be useful if you want to work on web apps, just like the SCBCD would be useful if you worked on EJBs. The SCJD is more general in nature.

And, as stated before, research the job market you want to be in, to see how much it values any of these.
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Thank You very much Ulf Dittmer,
I have passed SCJP last saturday. Now i am really confused about my future plans. Can you please suggest me which certification should I do?
 
Rahul Bhattacharjee
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In India I really do not feel that you get much out of these certifications.If you want to give then follow the standard path.
SCJP then SCWCD , then SCBCD , Sun web services , SCEA.

But your requirement might not get fulfilled.
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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so do you want to say that in India there is not much value for these certifications?
 
Mansur Khan
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There are people who don't like web component development in particular. They may have worked on JSP/Struts/JSTL and yet they dislike them because of the 'foolish/flowery' syntax they need. But it may change with JSF and so the next version of SCWCD may be interesting. So people who hate the flowery syntax of the web technologies can right away opt for SCBCD. It is choice of taste. But if you are thinking about which version of SCBCD for now, then you have to make a decision on based on your own research, intuition and spider-sense.

I can say that 'Aish-Abhishek-marriage-preparation-telecast-by-Indian-Media' doesn't make sense in India but who said certifications don't make sense in India? Given two resumes to an overseas client to pick people for projects, he will pick the certified one. There's sense in getting certified and getting certified on a sponsorship from the company makes more economic sense.
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Thanks Mansur... Thank you very much.
Actually I also don't like web-base applications> I just want to work in Java development only(I don't know about JSP and servlet how they work). But in the current market demand for J2EE candidates and pay good salary also, so why I wana move to J2EE. Currently I am working on Java Swing. What you suggest me to to do next after my SCJP which will give me Job satisfaction as well as a good salary...

Thank you in advanse.
 
Ulf Dittmer
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Originally posted by Rahul Bhattacharjee:
In India I really do not feel that you get much out of these certifications.

Rahul, that's interesting. I was under the impression that certifications are particularly valuable in India, given all the Indian members who frequent the certification forums here. Could you elaborate a bit on why you think that?

In job markets I'm familiar with (primarily USA and Germany) certifications do not generally play a big role. Other factors (such as hands-on experience, social qualities, and maybe academics for recent graduates) are more important.
 
Rahul Bhattacharjee
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The nature of work done by an industry is the deciding factor.

If you consider the indian IT industry then you will find that innovation is not originating from here.
The work here mostly comprises of bug fixing , maintenance and testing.Companies here are more into making more profit.So for fixing bugs you do not need to have a lot of depth in language.Mainly the bugs can be fixed using very basics and some debugging skills.So here the companies look for people with good analytical skills and as you grow up the ladder you will find becoming manager is easier than becoming an architect(no much scope for technical growth).

For doing a piece of job you need IQ 4/10.You have to choose amongst two candidates A and B.

A has IQ 5/10 and is having couple of certificates and B is having the same IQ of 5/10 and having no certificates.You will find that chances of B getting selected is more, not A.

Select the right candidate , not the best.
 
Mansur Khan
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We want to be best. Right Rahul?
 
Rahul Bhattacharjee
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Originally posted by Mansur Khan:
We want to be best. Right Rahul?


Absolutely.
 
Atul Sawant
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I am a SCJP.

I have two years of experience but not in JAVA technology. Since i wanted to shift in that i took SCJP and passed it. I have started looking for a job and believe me i am getting a decent amount of calls. I have a friend who is an engineer but not certified he does not get calls as much as I do. I conclude that certification does add colors to your Resume.

During interviews, I found that there is NO consideration of you being certified even after my repeated attempts to claim that i have been certified with 91%. Whoever said percentage matters would sound so incorrect to me. However, i am surprised to see myself how comfortable i am giving all the answers for the technical questions and also solving technical test papers so indirectly certification helped me being the best. I am just hoping for the best now.

Another thing i discovered is that java with J2EE really is the "in" thing now. They really want J2EE guys along with Java. This is the reason why i am gving SCWCD and also planing to give SCBCD. It is also important to make projects if you are not having a revelant experience.

So, In my experience in India. Java + J2EE programmer/developer= You are hot. We take you.

Best of luck!
 
Damodar Mukherjee
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Thanks Atul,
I think you are absolutely right!!!
 
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