SCWCD Vs SCJD

[Danny Duong]

Hi,
I've recently completed my SCJP and looking at doing the SCWCD, mainly because the topics are more interesting to me and its seems to be more useful than SCJD.
Are these two certification mutually exclusive?
I understand that this is the SCWCD forum.
But, if you were to assess the two certifications objectively, why would you do one instead of the other?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Cheers.
Danny.

[Thomas Kijftenbelt]

hi,
I had to make the same discission, and decided that I'll first take the SCWCD exam, and then decide whether I'll go for the SCJD or SCEA exam.
The main reason to optfor the SCWCD first was that there is currently more happening in JSP / Servlets field than in the Swing / RMI field.
good luck,
TK
SCJP

[Peter den Haan]

The three certifications mentioned -- SCWCD, SCJD, and SCEA -- are totally different.

The SCWCD exam is a bit like a SCJP for Web containers; it teaches you the technology and API, and if you passed it you have a minimum of knowledge about the platform.

The SCJD exam is not about technology at all, it is about understanding requirements, OO design and development in a context that at least approaches real life. Passing it with a good score says much more about your ability as a developer than the SCWCD certification does.

SCEA takes an eagle's eye, architectural view of J2EE enterprise development. You learn absolutely nothing about the nitty-gritty details that would occupy a typical developer.

Personally, I'd hire a SCJD over a SCWCD even though web development is our daily business, because I'd rather have a good developer than someone who knows the API by heart; YMMV. The Architect's exam is a different kettle of fish altogether and I'm tempted to say that, if the SCWCD is relevant to you, the SCEA almost certainly isn't. Besides, despite illusions we like to entertain, most of us don't implement the type of enterprise system the SCEA certification is aimed at.
- Peter
[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: Peter den Haan ]

[Sudd Ghosh]

I agree more with Thomas regarding my decision to study for SCWCD. I am working in a big corporation where they're trying to use more of the available J2EE framework rather than developing the low-level transaction management details from scratch. This in turn eliminates the need to use RMI, Sockets, Serialization, JDBC and to some extent IO. Also I'm hearing that the future of Swing is bleak, with IBM's eclipse being more efficient.
So considering all these, I thought of doing this first and then think of SCJD. Also pls note that IBM 483 test has an interesting content. It has SCWCD plus EJB and some more stuffs. But I'm not sure if it's that well known/recognized.
Thanks.

[Sudd Ghosh]

I think I should complete my statement by saying that it is very USEFUL to know RMI, serialization and Java beans, because many of the J2EE components are built using these concepts.
Also this knowledge will help if one is working/plans to work in an infrastructure company, where they start developing from scratch.
Thanks

[Peter den Haan]

Although you will inevitably pick up some skills regarding them, SCJD is not at all about Swing or RMI, but primarily about analysis and architecture -- something enterprise project have even more need of than of web container skills.
And, I'll reiterate, please do not think of the SCEA as a kind of SCWCD but then for the full J2EE platform with EJBs and stuff. It isn't remotely like that. It is for architects who wouldn't be able define a home interface if their life depended on it.
- Peter

[Simon Brown]

Originally posted by Peter den Haan:
Although you will inevitably pick up some skills regarding them, SCJD is not at all about Swing or RMI, but primarily about analysis and architecture -- something enterprise project have even more need of than of web container skills.

I totally agree ... and it also gets people into the habit of Javadoc'ing their code, laying it out appropriately and making (and justifying) design decisions.
Simon

[Sam Dalton]

And, I'll reiterate, please do not think of the SCEA as a kind of SCWCD but then for the full J2EE platform with EJBs and stuff. It isn't remotely like that. It is for architects who wouldn't be able define a home interface if their life depended on it.

Thi is a great point that is often overlooked. People are often surprised about quite how high-level the SCEA is in comparison to the other certifications!

[M.C. Horn]

I think it is important to determine what your objectives are when taking any certification exam. I have been doing java development for about six years and have just recently started knocking out some certs. Why? Because I do not want to get overlooked because I lack them. For a beginning programmer starting out, the developer's cert is definitely valuable because you will learn from the experience as well as provide a bit of validation via the cert. The job market is very competitive, and is getting very specialized. I am taking the JWCD tomorrow and find that the study required for the test has shored up my overall knowledge a bit. In this business you must plan to always continually educate and re-educate yourself, by doing your own projects, work projects, and reading about what other folks are doing. When I interview someone I look at initiative as well as experience. The developer's cert indicates more initiative because you have to do a lot more home work to get through it. I also recommend looking to IBM for some certifications that are a bit less generic and more comprehensive. Quite a few employers are looking for Webspere related experience. Most of the folks on this board who indicate what they look for and what they value, are pros in the field. Unfortunately the actual person who interviews you will not be one of these moderators. If so you could cut to the chase rather quickly and save a lot of time.

[Kathy Sierra]

My two cents here...

At Sun I often recommended that if you do NOT have solid OO developer experience to show, the SCJD is excellent for two reasons: it will GIVE you that experience, and it will DEMONSTRATE that experience.
However, if you DO have a strong development background, even if it is primarily in C++, you might want to look at the Web component exam instead. The Developer exam is ALWAYS an excellent exercise to go through, but if you have limited time / resources, and you don't actually NEED to demonstrate your developer experience, I believe the Web exam might be more useful.
That's my story for now, anyway
You know how quickly things change in this world...
Cheers,
Kathy

[John Lee]

Hi:
I think you can learn different things form two certs. SCWCD is like a introduction class, teach you lots of buzz word, serve a stepstone for further learning. SCJD teach you programming skill, you get a taste of industrial project.
So why not both? In fact, you can do both at the same time.

[HS Thomas]

posted by Peter den Haan
Besides, despite illusions we like to entertain, most of us don't implement the type of enterprise system the SCEA certification is aimed at.

Peter,
Could you expand on this ,please.
What type of Enterprise System is it aimed at?
I notice a lot of solutions are based on the Struts framework which seems to be gaining popularity.
regards
[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Peter den Haan]

The exam is fairly EJB-centric and pays a lot of attention to large-scale, complex enterprise scenarios. But make no mistake, it is not the place to "learn about EJBs" in any kind of detail.
- Peter
[ February 08, 2003: Message edited by: Peter den Haan ]

[HS Thomas]

it is not the place to "learn about EJBs" in any kind of detail.

Peter, by this do you mean that it's better to learn the separate technologies that make up EJBs.
Component-based,distributed,transaction-based, secure which EJBs are supposedly. Or concentrate on any one ?
Having had a few brushes with EJB development in the past, I've come away with the feeling one ought to learn about it.
I had hoped the SCEA would help, but I agree that it seems rather high-level.
But someone/something has to pull it all together..don't you think?

[Peter den Haan]

Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Having had a few brushes with EJB development in the past, I've come away with the feeling one ought to learn about it. I had hoped the SCEA would help, but I agree that it seems rather high-level.

What I mean is that the SCEA will not help you learning about EJB development. It will teach you something about architecting with EJBs, which is a comletely different activity.
I suppose the closest to the "next step" certification most look for is the IBM 483 exam, which is part of the jCert enterprise developer track.
- Peter

[HS Thomas]

Ah, the missing link!
I had thought, previously, that the IBM 483 test was specific to IBM/Websphere development.
Thanks,Peter. This is useful information.
regards

[Angie Wu]

IBM Test483 was mentioned above. My question is:
what are the significant differences between Test483 and Test 489. From the test objective of both exams, they both aim on J2EE.
Could anyone help to explain the differences?
Thanks.

[Peter den Haan]

From the looks of it, 489 is for server administration, as opposed to J2EE development, and completely WebSphere-specific. The 483 exam on the other hand is for J2EE development, not administration, and fully generic. As I said, 483 is in the generic part of jCert.
- Peter