This week's book giveaway is in the Agile and Other Processes forum. We're giving away four copies of Real-World Software Development: A Project-Driven Guide to Fundamentals in Java and have Dr. Raoul-Gabriel Urma & Richard Warburton on-line! See this thread for details.
According to my opinion all you need is just pass this exam. the rest you can learn it in the real world. Trying to get a lot of percentage will involve lots of memorizing some brutal info that you can always look it up in a real work envirnment. Does it make a difference if you pass this test with 61% or 96% or 100%. I know passing with better percentage shows that you have a better grip on the subject. But as far as on your certificate, does the certificate be different if you pass with a better percentage ??? Does it say that you have passed with honors and you should be treated differently than the guy who has just passed with 61%. My SCJP certificate does not mention anything about percentage. Please post your opinion. All we care is getting certified. Getting certified improves yor chances of finding a job. Not only that it will give you better understanding of the subject. If the certificate does not show the percentage on it, why study too hard to get 95% or above. As long as you pass that ok right???
If I need to go to grocery store I just need a corolla or a camry or if its not too far I can walk to get there. A good enough car to get me there would be enough. Just to get to get to the grocery store I dont need a lamborgini... Why do we need to get 96% if the certificate does not show any difference if 61% or 96%??? Logically thinking i think its waste of effort to get a higher percentage. Please post your opinion about wht you think. Naveen
Hi Nav, I agree with you that the score of your certification does not really matter as long as you pass the certification. But, I would not say that it is a waste of time to try to score as high as you can. I know when I go into a certification exam, I am always trying to score high but I am also always happy with a pass. If you think about it, you seem to be saying that it is ok to just pass so don't work too hard. I think that if you get a job, you may want to be as prepared as you possibly can. I agree with you that part of learning is knowing how to find and look up information but the more you know the better. Why should someone just aim for a pass when they can do really well?
I have posted the same reply on one other forum too. The question you asked is conditional,contextual and relative.It all depends on whom you are showing this certification score. More than certification the score card is important which shows the actual %. The score card states "Certification testing is a means of measuring your knowledge and skill level.IT can also be used to identify areas that need improvement and areas of strength.It can also be used of further learning and future achievments" Certification gives an opportunity to know the intricacies and details of the API's which we use but know little about.What is the use of scoring only passing % after spending so much of hard earned money. The fact that one has scored high in certification means the person knows the specs by SUN as they should be known.Knowing specification improves one's chances of designing the application in appropriate way.It improves one's chances to predict the behavior of any product which claims that its compliant with particular specification.It helps in debugging the code too. A high score boost your confidence. I personaly feel that the intention of appearing for any certification should only be to know as much about the API's and specs as possible, working on the same technology for donkey's years dosen't ensure that the person knows everything and is in a position to extract the best out of the technology at disposal. Regards Noaman
Interesting discussion: I do have a couple points, perhaps not popular ones though. 1 - When I wrote, I took the certification personally. Why just settle for a passing grade? 2 - I did better than I expected (higher than the sample tests) but I did study allot. My aim was to get higher than 80%. The sample tests were showing about 85%. I was happy with my result and I felt I deserved it because of the time and effort I put in. 3 - My employer supports Certs very well. They pay for the test and materials as well a bonus for passing. I could have received the bonus with 61 or 98, but I was proud to demonstrate that I put in 110% effort. 4 - I feel that the Sun's passing mark should more like 75% not 61%. This way when you 'just pass' and become 'certified' it is known the cert is challenging. If I was an employer, given the current passing grade, I would ask a job candidate for thier score. 5 - I have worked on several Java web projects at my company and was never able to use all area's covered in the exam. With the exam study I was able to learn some stuff that I otherwise would not have seen in each the projects. In addition with a framework like Struts(and others), much of the nuts and bolts are hidden from the developer. The exam shows you the how's and why's. I think this is important 6 - 61% demonstrates that you have covered the material. 96% demostrates that you have covered the material very well. I think there is a difference. Thank you. Just my 4 cents.
I think it depends upon what you're goals are. When I took the SCJP I went perhaps a little earlier than many people would, after about two weeks of serious study. I was confident I would pass and did pass well clear of the mark. But I didn't blow it away. I did it that way because I wished to get started on the SCWCD quickly and valued the second certification more than a 95+% grade on the SCJP. A lot of the things on the certification exams are details. The compiler will pick it up if you make a mistake and/or you can read it in a reference book. So, does one shoot for 100%? I think it depends upon whether one wishes to be broad or narrow in a sense. Do I study 2 weeks to learn everything about J2SE before taking the certification or do I invest the two weeks learning things which don't show up on certification exam curriculums? Such as J2ME, JINI, JMX, etc. In my case the answer is clear. I find breadth of knowledge to be more important than winning the Java quiz show. It's important to extend one's knowledge of J2SE over time of course, something which I can accomplish nicely by visiting Dan Chisholm's mock exam site twice a week and doing a mock exam.
I could not agree with Jeffrey more. We use Struts at work to craft some complex UIs for yield management systems. The material in the SCWCD provides insight into the things Struts is taking care of on our behalf. Knowledge of those underpinnings has proven critical. Lots of "ah ha!"s have come by way of pouring over the study material needed for the SCWCD. My employer does not support certification. They don't dislike certs per se. They just don't pay certs much mind. It's all a matter of opinion. These certs I'm working on are for my knowledge and enlightenment. Perhaps the desire to score that much better comes down to a saying like "go hard or go home". The value of certification in the industry is inconsistent. It is a function of the prevailing opinion of the shop you are looking at. I did some Monster searches last month for jobs that specifically required Sun certs and found a number of hits. Most preferred the SCJD. A couple would have liked to have an SCEA. One actually insisted on an SCJP2 with minimum 87%. Jeffrey hit an intesting point on the minimum score. It ought to be higher. Certs could perhaps carry a bit more weight in credibility if employers had a notion that the gold stars on your resume were harder won.
The question is? Will having a certification help you get a job in this tough market??? I was told by my mnager after getting certified that having the certification in his opinion doesn't mean that I could program in Java!!! Regardless of the score!!! Now, I realize that this was just his opinion but after completing this exam....I think that the Developers certification is probably a better indication that one can program in Java than the SCJP cert... Just another 2 cents! Noel :roll:
posted 16 years ago
Noel, your boss was both right and wrong. A total greenhorn can pass the SCJP through sheer memorization, and that would not mean they can program in Java. But I'd hire a greenhorn with a SCJP over any other greenhorn! Certification + experience is an indicator of ability. The SCJD is a good exam, but the problem is that it's kind off-target for someone doing J2EE work, because it shows mostly that you can do Swing, RMI, and maybe some I/O. For relatvely inexperienced people it shows that you can do a Java project which passes inspection. It's well-worth doing but is about 5th on my list after the SCJP, SCWCD, SCEA, the IBM XML cert, and a cert on either Weblogic or Websphere. Maybe the IBM OO/UML test as well. [ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]
posted 16 years ago
Noel, If I read your posting correctly, it sounds like your boss is a tough one. The boss's opinion on certs is less important if you know that you're better off skills-wise for having gone through the certification exercise. Can certs help you get a job? Sure! One can say, "oh sure, I designed the NYSE trading system all by myself" (not that anyone puffs up their resume! ), but a cert, like a degree, is proof-positive that you know a couple-three things and Sun thinks you're at least OK. It seems like certs can be a funny thing. They're nice to mention, but put them way out front, and they could work against you. Returning to the original question in this thread, if the interviewer asked how I did on the test, I'd much rather say "91%" than "61%". The only reason the SCWCD did not appear in the Monster hits is because it is new. The HR people drafting those posting are not aware of it yet. My boss used to grade SCJD assignments (in '98) and he was not aware of the SCWCD until a month or so ago. [ April 18, 2003: Message edited by: Erick Reid ]
posted 16 years ago
I think the idiocy which Noel's boss propounded says far more about his ability than Noel's. If Noel can code Java then the boss should know it whether Noel is certified or not. The boss seems to be in some doubt, or perhaps he is just being a complete jerk. But if Noel can't code Java then what is the boss doing employing him? In judging which one of the two knows their job I think we have to consider the evidence. Noel has his certification, which argues heavily for him. The boss seems to be trying to argue one of his employees out of trying to get better. I think that says something as well.....
Hi all, Thankyou all for your good feedback on my question. Made me thinkabout percentage and work harder on the exam. Passed the SCWCD with 86%.. Not bad a percentage for a 1 week preparation. Bought JwebPlus 7 and had done 4 tests in it. No other material other than manning and JwebPlus. I have been working in Java/J2EE for couple of years so it was not much of a deal. So any way I feel good that I passed well in a short time. Thankyou All for who responding to my questions. After all percentage does matter. More percentage makes you more confident about your ability. Naveen
In my opinion balance is important here, and passing with 61% or 100% is result of combination of many factors. Sure, 100% is better than 61%, but time is also important. If it takes for me 4 months study to get 100% and 2 months study for 80%, I would settle for 80% and move on to next thing.
The question is? Will having a certification help you get a job in this tough market???
One of our Java contractors told me today that he was getting his CVs (resumes) rejected because he has no certification. (This in in the UK.) He therefore asked for my help in obtaining study material for SCJP.
SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.3, SCBCD 1.3
posted 16 years ago
I can see certifications being a bigger deal for a contractor. It is more difficult to look into past achievements for a contractor than it is for a fulltime employee. The certifications provide some assurance that, at the very least, the candidate understands the terminology and technical landscape. Certifications can be seen as evidence of "dedication to the field" -- this is insight gleaned from a friend who gives the tech portion of the interviews at a large travel booking site. They don't see "SCJD" (or whatever) and think the candidate is an outstanding developer so much as they think "this candidate has a measurable degree of dedication to this line of work".
Humans and their filthy friendship brings nothing but trouble. My only solace is this tiny ad: