Certification didn't help me

[Shreyas Reddy]

hey guys,
i need someone to cheer me up. i was applying fora position and was screened on phone. when the recruiter asked me about java access modifiers i didn't respond in fraction of second and she finds me unfit for the position....the resume clearly says i am SCJP and SCWCD...and thus i failed to go to actual interview. Doesn't the certifications say we know the something to pass the exam?
It is so depressing...

[Terry Martinson]

That's a bummer. While certification alone is not enough to get a job, it's unfortunate that they didn't at least give you an actual interview. I also would not be able to just crank out a response that fast like they expected you to do.

Cheer up and keep on trying! Be confident that by going through the hassle of these certifications, you did actually learn some good stuff and that this learning will make you a better programmer.

Hang in there!

TJ

[Anthony Watson]

Here's a good pro certification story: When I applied for my first job as a java software engineer, they had me take a written test that was almost exactly the same as the questions that appear on the SCJP exam, which I had just passed a couple months earlier.

I think that it is important to code a lot of examples though when studying for certs and not just read all the time or else you can get tripped up with questions that an everyday coder would know instataneously. For example, when taking the job's test, I forgot that the import statements do not come first (package statement is first). Little details like that can make a big difference when someone is questioning your Java knowledge and they can be a dead giveaway that your knowledge is academic rather than practical.

Good luck in your job hunt!

[Matt Henderson]

Look at it this way. What kind of a company will totally disregard you just because you didn't respond in a fraction of a second that they required? Most likely your next job will probably be one that you liked, and then you will probably thank that person for disqualifying you. Those are typical companies that don't look at the big picture..........

All the best......

[Nicholas Cheung]

Different interviewers have their own requirements and thinking. Some of them may consider to give you time to think and answer certain questions, like SCJP, while some of them may think that you should already know the answer as you are already SCJP, but still, you cant make the answer at once.

Sometimes, employers also question about how accurate the certification can rate a person in certain skills. For example, as some ranchers mentioned here before, they can pass an exam with 90+, however, they have only a little real experiences on it.

Anyway, certification is just a mean that increase your chances for interview or receive a call, whether you get a job or not is really depends on your performance and preparation.

Best luck for the next interview.

Nick

[Chengwei Lee]

Here's a good pro certification story: When I applied for my first job as a java software engineer, they had me take a written test that was almost exactly the same as the questions that appear on the SCJP exam, which I had just passed a couple months earlier.

Wow, the questions were exactly the same? I think Sun's lawyers might be knocking on the doors of your ex-employer... Unless our ex-employer was Sun...

[Eusebio Floriano]

Originally posted by Cheng Wei Lee:


Wow, the questions were exactly the same? I think Sun's lawyers might be knocking on the doors of your ex-employer... Unless our ex-employer was Sun...

In my interview, there were many questions about scjp, scqcd and scbcd ...

I don�t think they just took the question from sun�s exam.
There are a bound of mock question very very very similar with the real exam.

[Reid M. Pinchback]

Originally posted by Shreyas Reddy:
when the recruiter asked me about java access modifiers i didn't respond in fraction of second and she finds me unfit for the position....the resume clearly says i am SCJP and SCWCD...and thus i failed to go to actual interview. Doesn't the certifications say we know the something to pass the exam?
It is so depressing...

In a couple of previous jobs I had to do a lot of phone screens and on-site interviews of candidates for various development and management positions. One thing you unfortunately find is that at least 1/2 of the applicants are substantially misrepresenting their skills, and that is AFTER you've sifted out the people whose resume shows they probably shouldn't have even applied in the first place, which is often about 2/3rds of the resumes you receive.

Decent interviewers will make multiple attempts to assess what you know in a way that makes faking it difficult. If the situation is as you describe, namely that only one attempt was made, that isn't good. Sometimes the way the interviewer asks a question can cause a candidate to not readily give an answer, even if it is material they know. When you find an interviewer is very arbitrary in their process, YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO WORK THERE. You usually see a company at its best during the hiring process, and if that process stinks, you have to be concerned about what will follow.

This does not sound like a case where certification didn't help you. You were either dealing with a bad interviewer (and there are some recruiters out there that can be a complete waste of time to deal with), or your own interviewing skills aren't yet as strong as you might believe. Chalk it up to experience, but reflect on what happened and think up ways you could have prepared for the interview more effectively, or think up techniques that you could use when you are stumped by a question. For example, it is perfectly reasonable to ask for clarification - maybe the interviewer is using terminology that differs from what you would use. In other cases, maybe you know part of the answer, but not all of the answer - so be up-front about what you do know, and what you don't know.

[William Brogden]

i was applying fora position and was screened on phone. when the recruiter asked me about java access modifiers i didn't respond in fraction of second and she finds me unfit for the position....

I bet she already had made a choice for the position and was just going through the motions for the remaining applicants. Just be glad you didn't waste any time going in for an interview.

Bill

[Shreyas Reddy]

thanks all. I was little depressed for several hours but i am out of it now.
And a big YES to preparing better for interviews.....For access modifiers for some reason i didn't remember the 'protected' and i couldn't answer ONLY one EJB related question... all other EJB related question i answered 'instantly'. I stopped blaming the recruiter and started concentrating on my preparation.
i honestly feel even though you know some things sometimes you cannot remember...or may be it is just me...and i have been working in java for around 6 years on and off depending on the project work.
THANKS again all.

[Chengwei Lee]

thanks all. I was little depressed for several hours but i am out of it now.
And a big YES to preparing better for interviews.....For access modifiers for some reason i didn't remember the 'protected' and i couldn't answer ONLY one EJB related question... all other EJB related question i answered 'instantly'. I stopped blaming the recruiter and started concentrating on my preparation.
i honestly feel even though you know some things sometimes you cannot remember...or may be it is just me...and i have been working in java for around 6 years on and off depending on the project work.
THANKS again all.

Lots of good luck man!

[June Lee]

I had a bad interview myself yesterday. I was asked to explain "polymorphism" at first. It took me several seconds to phrase my speech. Then after I claimed I know JDBC and transaction, I was asked about "2-phase commit", which I have totally no idea. Felt like a lier.... Well, now I am trying to collect some interview FAQs and memorize them. As a java developer with 4 yrs professonal experience, I should do better. But as a non-native speaker, going to interview always freaks out.

[Alan Ford]

Cert did help me. got only scjp. Was lucky I guess.
Just keep learning and getting them (it will come to you).

However I never had expectations that cert will do miracles for me.
It did open the door for me (no miracles ... )

[Yi.Cai]

some boss may think "The real experience is more important than the certificate"....

[Mohamad Elkadi]

Think always in positive way. The more no you get the more to YES you would approach

[james edwin]

Well my experience says- Certification can help you to take your CV till interview stage and after that it's all your knowledge and best way to learn things are through certification only,while preparing for certification you will read so many minor details which we never bother while we work !!!..

So guys let's keep the enthu on and think positive !!! Remember after every dark night we have morning coming and just keep trying you will suceeed.

[Billy Tsai]

Having SCJP and SCWCD along won't help you too much at all, anyway the questions they ask u seem to be mostly the basics if one can't even answer the basics properly then that one probably will not be able to to handle to work assigned and technically incompetent to develope software.

[Alan Ford]

Uh seems that Billy got a job and now he is explaining us how all without job are probably incometent (Bily rememer your posts from a year ago?)

[Shreyas Reddy]

Taking certification atleast makes u read all the stuff you might not have known. You will know the things that can and cannot be done. During the preperation and for sometime after the exam you remember the syntax very well. And later you know where to go look for minor details if the need araises. Honestly how many people will remember the exact syntax if you don't use it on day-to-day basis. I didn't have to use it on my projects for a while. But I know where to go and look when I need. Everyone will not have enough time to keep practicing everyday when you are not using it...Recruiter knows that my current work is not Java...I was doing some shell scriting
Hey Billy, don't tell me you remember every minute detail of whatever you read and used in the past, especially if you are not using it on day-to-day basis.
Anyways I am back into Java mode preparing for SCBCD exam.
lets stop this here. thanks all

[ram nagab]

hi all

the job market is tough and the reality that any employer want to gurantee that the new individuals knows the details . I am working in Java and sometimes I find myself can not remember but I search on the books and internet . my employer sent a position to the internet and many candidates applied for it . the only way to choose the right candidate to ask about the details . if really you want to get the job then you should read and practice in your own . some interviews asking high level questions but the economy now sucks in the world and many programmers sitting in their home waiting for opportunities . taking the certification as a tool to find a job is not the right way but taking the certification to increase the knowledge and enhance the areas which you do not use in your day to day activities is the right way.

thanks

[Sania Marsh]

My friend had few phone interviews where the recruiters didn't even know what they were asking.
My friend answered "map and hashtable" to question: "In what collection you can store key-value pairs" and the girl replied:"I have hashtable only written here". Go prove her that you are right.
Now, if she never replied and just marked it wrong, we would be still guessing why he didn't get the job.

Once a girl call me for Java job, she told me she will send me a test, and if I pass it, I will have face-to-face interview. Guess what she sent me? JavaScript quiz. I called her back, and she told me that they are looking for senior Java developers, that's why she sent me that quiz.

[Ravi Appana]

A tip : Do note that some Companies outsource HR work. The screening might be done by people who don't know about Technology. You need to be prepared for this. As the one over the phone or the person screening your resume might be going through a check list. Many screeners don't understand J2EE. So, if you want to sell yourself in the Java World, need to be explicit in mentioning the full names of the ceritfications and also put both Java, J2EE. If your certification is against the latest version, do specify it.

[Nobuhiro Watsuki]

maybe they really didn't know about about java access modifiers and set up the phone conversation to ask a certified person!