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can i use HFSJ - beginner (servletys & jsp)

 
riyaz udeen
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well every one there.. i want to know whether i can use head first on SER & JSP in order to start learning jsp & serv. if not plz provide me the best resources road map where can i download pdf.thank u .

regards
riyaz
 
Ner min
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absolutly YES, u wont find anything better for beginners?
i have been php-programer for several years(ok, with some java knowledge too )
and i have got this book before 3 weeks(knowing nothing on JSP&Servlets before ) ant tomorrow i'm taking the exam. I rearly understand everything in book i read but in this case(i still wondering) i'm preaty impressd(ok , there r couple of things, but what for is this forum for?).
Just read it and enyoj
[ September 29, 2005: Message edited by: Ner min ]
 
vijaya bacina
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HSFJ is good for beginners and for preparing scwcd
and also http://www.theserverside.com/books/addisonwesley/ServletsJSP/index.tss
is really gr8 book to start
 
Ner min
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hi vijaya,
i just wos on http://www.theserverside.com
im amaized? r those books realy for free or just the trick to get u'r email to bomb u later with the spam? could u get some of em?
they have preaty nice books i was considering to by like
Mastering EJB Third Edition and
The J2EE Architect's Handbook

i'm mean how can they do that, i mean legaly? those r not some old books in fact those r HOT books
 
vijaya bacina
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ya they r absolutely free.. and im not getting any spam from serverside site... they r just sending alerts on new java technologies etc but only if we r interested to recieve..
 
Nicky Eng
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thanks for the link.
 
Ice Penov
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Hi riyaz and everyone,

you can use HFSJ if you want to. I have this book and I don't like it. See why here.

For learning(not for the purpose of certification) I would recommend Core Servlets and JSP by Marty Hall. You can freely download the first edition of this fantastic book here. But I must warn you, though. This book does not contain pictures, it is not in color and its pages does not smell like strawberry.


Happy Learning,
Ice

[ September 30, 2005: Message edited by: Ice Penov ]
[ September 30, 2005: Message edited by: Ice Penov ]
 
Ner min
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Hi riyaz,

i agree Ice Penov, butt not totally.
This is my opinion

1.
there is nothing out there witch will get u better ready fo the exam.
2.
the pedagogical approach is wonderful and this is one of very few books where i had a feeling this people really, really, really wont u to learn something NOT only to get u'r 50$.
3.(on the other side)
although the approach (on it's self )is wonderful, not everything is done the best way.(BUT AGAIN there is nothing on the market comparable to HF-Style, so we maybe shouldn�t be to judgey). Chapters 4 to 8 r jumping from topic to topic leaving u without a really whole comprehensive picture.
For Example: if we take the listener-topic
u have to look at page 182,253,262 and 263 an none of them gives u r whole picture.
With whole picture I mean:
a.Who Implements it
b does it need to be declared in DD
c Which Listener,
d which methods it have
e which EventType the listener takes,

Same thing with the Servlet,JSP,and EL scopes

A wonderful examples of perfect work on the other side is complete chapter 12 especially page654 , chapter 13 and 14 and � For Example everything u need to understand costume tags is to look on 2 pictures on page 532 and 533� the way they describe the patterns which make the genesis of Front Controler� mmmm lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely!
4.(maybe the only negativ imo)
the book have no practical example at all! Imo there is nothing(beside the REALLY GOOD UNDERSTENDING of the Technology) u can reuse for praxis!

So to summarise: GREAT LEARNING BOOK but no practical use except u'r only aim is to pas the exam. then i suggest JUST READ it.

I have been a ASP/PHP Programmer for 7 years(ok, I had some basic java knowledge but no Servlet or JSP at all) and I bay this book beginning of this month, spend 8Hourse a Day of Learning in a past 3 weeks and today I passesd the SCWCD exam with 84%.

Isn�t that lovely?
[ September 30, 2005: Message edited by: Ner min ]
 
Ice Penov
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Originally posted by Ner min:


4.(maybe the only negativ imo)
the book have no practical example at all! Imo there is nothing(beside the REALLY GOOD UNDERSTENDING of the Technology) u can reuse for praxis!


See, my man, that is the only criteria I have about a book. Maybe now you can understand why I protest against this book.

Originally posted by Ner min:


I have been a ASP/PHP Programmer for 7 years(ok, I had some basic java knowledge but no Servlet or JSP at all) and I bay this book beginning of this month, spend 8Hourse a Day of Learning in a past 3 weeks and today I passesd the SCWCD exam with 84%.

Isn�t that lovely?



That's fabulous. Like the certs letter says: Enjoy the benefits that this certificate carries.

Stay well,
Ice
 
Bert Bates
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Ner, Ice, everyone,

As long as gun play isn't involved we certainly love all the passion! Positive and negative. Ice, I'd like to thank you for referring back to the thread of a month or two ago - I just looked it over again, and I think it's a really good conversation for anyone who is interested in this topic. Ner, thanks for the kind words!

- Bert
 
Darya Akbari
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The thread Bert is talking about is HFSJ Hype or real?.

And I also remember the interesting discussion I had with our PROUD MACEDONIAN JavaRancher (Ice ). As a Persian (partly) I must admit that we already had some difficulties with another great Macedonian named Alexander the Great .

Regards,
Darya
 
Bert Bates
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Hi Darya,

Actually I was thinking about the one with ice:

http://www.coderanch.com/t/170011/java-Web-Component-SCWCD/certification/HFSJ

but they're both interesting

- Bert
 
Ice Penov
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Originally posted by Bert Bates:

As long as gun play isn't involved we certainly love all the passion! Positive and negative.


Bert, it takes two to tango. Without me those discussions would'n existed and people wouldn't had more information about ways of learning a technology.

'Off the record', Bert, are you still interested in AI?

Originally posted by Darya Akbari:
As a Persian (partly) I must admit that we already had some difficulties with another great Macedonian named Alexander the Great .


Well, my man, i guess history repeats iteself!

Regards,
Ice
 
Bert Bates
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Hey Ice,

Bert, it takes two to tango. Without me those discussions would'n existed and people wouldn't had more information about ways of learning a technology.

'Off the record', Bert, are you still interested in AI?


I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why I thanked you for referring people back to that discussion

Yes, I'm still doing a little AI - in fact we're working on a "top secret" project that has an AI component... you got some AI stuff going on?

- Bert
 
Bimal Patel
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Hi All,

I've just gone through the discussion going on. After looking at that and the previous thread specified by ICE, I would like to say something. Head First is obviously a new approach. I would rather say completely different approach. I've gone through the introductory pages of the same book and I liked that the concept of pictures with text is covered.

It is true that a picture is equal to the 500(or more) characters. And that is what has been tried to cover in Head First series. I've gone through couple of books for SCWCD certification. And Head First is my third one. So far I've completed 2 chapters and I would like to say this might be the first book to read for not only for certification purpose but it has good understanding for the beginers of Servlets and JSP. This is because I've got to know about the book for a long time. And after having a look at the book, I couldn't resist myself of reading it. I was looking for some of the topics which I wasn't able to find in my previous books. Again, it depends from eye to eye, mind to mind. As per me, if you are a very "serious" reader who can't expect some fun while trying to grasp, this book may not be a good choice for you.

At the end, I'd like to say that this is a good approach which may feel you like a classroom in which the teacher is trying to explain. Some may not agree with me but most of the population would be .
[ October 03, 2005: Message edited by: Bimal Patel ]
 
Ice Penov
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Originally posted by Bert Bates:

Yes, I'm still doing a little AI - in fact we're working on a "top secret" project that has an AI component... you got some AI stuff going on?


AI is my primary field of interest. That I owe to my proffesor at college who started the fire going and the incredible book by Norvig, Russell - AI: A Modern Approach( that book showed me that everything I thought is SF about AI, actually is not...).

But, the marked in my country is not favorable to AI programmers. The market hare says: Java, .NET, DB, Web design... So, I decided to play along. But AI will remain my passion(professional or private). Who knows, maybe I'll end up with AI in the end, after all! I'm still developping(i'm 23) and who knows how I'll end up. But one tning is sure-I wanna end up rich!

Best Regards,
Ice
 
Peer Reynders
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Going off on a tangent here...

Ice,

I gather that you may be familiar with:
Lisp as an Alternative to Java
Lisp as an Alternative to Java


I was astonished that the study did not explore the possiblity in more detail that people who choose to use LISP may also tend to be more productive.

And Paul Graham seems to have done well, if not with AI but at least with LISP
Beating the Averages.
[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Peer Reynders ]
 
Ice Penov
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Hi Peer,

thanks for the links. I was familiar with the article on norvig.com. To me, what language you use depends on the application. But why Lisp has so many myths around it, I really can't tell. I especially liked this one--


Lisp is worth learning for the profound enlightenment experience you will have when you finally get it; that experience will make you a better programmer for the rest of your days, even if you never actually use Lisp itself a lot.


Very true!

You got some more interesting stuff to share with me? Please, put it in my mailbox at: ipenov@gmail.com

Thank you,
Ice

[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Ice Penov ]
[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Ice Penov ]
 
Ner min
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u would say, u dudes r really out of topic now
pure riyaz udeen , haven't sayd a word by now,
U JUST SCARRED HIM
[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Ner min ]
 
Peer Reynders
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Originally posted by Ice Penov:
Very true!

...hhhmmm maybe thats why MIT is using Scheme in their introductory programming course.
6.001 - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs Fall 2005
Catalog Entry
Text: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
 
Bert Bates
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i was lucky enough to do some expert systems that i got paid for we've also done some game AI... i've been noodling over a Go program for way too long... then there's our secret project
 
Peer Reynders
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Hi Bert,
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
... i've been noodling over a Go program for way too long...

Trying to get in on the action? Personally, "Many Faces Of Go" will keep me busy for years.

BTW: Dropped a comment for you about HFEJB here; nothing important.

Thank You
 
Bert Bates
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Hey Peer -

Thanks for the note on EJB - we're trying to figure out our timing to update that book... Sun is hard to pin down.

"Many Faces" is a great program, but I'd like a program that can trounce me if I give it 9 stones

That's kind of my goal...
 
riyaz udeen
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well dudes up there...iam not scared. but iam wondering abt the road ahead me to reach ur stage. but iam happy that my message has got u all back on the tree again. enjoy...

the more u share the more u gain.thank u .

with lov
riyaz
 
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