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why crazy people are trying to do SCJD? there is no hope dear. no job for java.

 
shanmugam soundrapandian
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please do not waste money. i have finished SCJD o JULY but i donot get job. there is AD for JAVA.
pls.don't waste yr time and money
best regards
sounadr
 
Mark Spritzler
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They never said that you would get a job from being a certified developer. And actually I doubt I will ever get a Java Programmer Job myself. Mainly because it didn't work for my work. So instead we are using VB and soon to be VB.net the Java copy.
But this certification is still well worth the money. First the experience and learning that occurs in this project covers a lot of situations you will find yourself in any application using any language.
The eye openers I got from this project only helps me be a better programmer.
You will never find a project that you can take your time with, have others you can bounce your ideas off of, and covers many areas.
I think it is worth it, job or not.
Oh, I also should mention that I also program Oracle Stored Procedures, and also act as a non certified DBA, and Oracle uses Java quite a bit, and the usefullness of Java Stored Procedures over PL/SQL also makes this ceritifcation usefull. From the standpoint of being a better Java programmer.
Mark
My 2 cents
 
Gennady Shapiro
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This is funny to me, don't take offense in this. I agree with Mark, the certification in no way guarantees you a job, or even implies that you will get one more easily. In fact, I have been hearing from people that putting SCJP,SCJD on your resume is a minus to your resume because it implies that your real worl experience isn't good enough -- I dont know how true this is, but in the past interviews I got condecending smiles from local 'experts' when they saw list of certifications on my resume.
Anyway, i am mostly server-side programmer and dont often get a chance to play with Swing or even straight RMI and multithreaded executions. People who mostly write servlets,EJB,JDBC know what I am talking about.
This is a chance to formalize or re-evaluate your education in Swing, Design Patterns, GUI builing, RMI, etc. or in general excercise your design skills. I also enjoy these discussions, very refreshing.
P.S. Job markets are tough right now, but not hopeless. Employers are looking for years of real world experience more than education level and certifications.

[This message has been edited by Gennady Shapiro (edited October 30, 2001).]
 
Ben Wheeler
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I agree, for job hunting alone it is not worth it. But for those who have years real world experience it can definately bring you up to date and widen your horizons. It can also help distinguish yourselves amongst the the pack. I am a senior systems architect and in no way do these qualifications act as a negative to those I hire. One can upon interviewing a candidate get the level of some-ones real world experience. A broad base of certifications help to demonstrate motivation and self learning. Key aspects in my book. The SUN exams are generally fairly tough and yes with abit of work u can pass. But still it amazes me how many people learn one way of doing something and always stick with that. These exams help people to break free from that. And that is great.
With respect to being an accomplished j2ee architect, I know if some has passed SCJP,SCJD,SCWCD and SCEA they have a good grounding of the j2ee framework in principle and some practive. Add this to 4 + years of real world experience and it looks good. Some many people quote on their resume RMI,JNID,JINI,EJb...etc and they have barely touched on them, let alone read the APi and taken a test on them. Infact several key banks ask SCJP questions as a way of eliminating poeple before they even get a face to face real interview. I definately ask questions at the Sun certified level.
Time spent furthering your knowledge is never a waste and good for confidence. Dont forget that!
Good luck to all. But yes real world experience espicially in communication and client facing are key skills, but theres no exams for these!
Any dont forget cross platform skills! Always no the other side of the equation! How can you recommend one over the other ?If you dont know the other? Hence my MCSD.
- Ben Wheeler
MCSD,SCJP,SCWCD,SCJD
------------------

[This message has been edited by Ben Wheeler (edited October 30, 2001).]
 
Terry McKee
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You can be the best programmer in the world, have all of the certifications that are offered, but without communication skills it is very difficult to get a job. I work with a team of Java and C++ developers and the single-most problematic issue is dealing with each other rather than individually developing code. I suggest you improve your communication skills before going for more certification. Your revised comment would be:

Do not waste YOUR money ON THE SCJD EXAM. I finished THE SCJD IN July but HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO get A job. ??? Don't waste YOUR time and money.

Here is a link to get you started:
Communication Skills!!!
Even if you don't get a job right away with the Developer Certification, it is very beneficial. Working through the exam gives you an opportunity to learn a lot! I am of strong belief that the exam is top notch!
 
Gregory Garrison
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Pretty funny!!
Originally posted by Terry McKee:
You can be the best programmer in the world, have all of the certifications that are offered, but without communication skills it is [b]very difficult to get a job. I work with a team of Java and C++ developers and the single-most problematic issue is dealing with each other rather than individually developing code. I suggest you improve your communication skills before going for more certification. Your revised comment would be:

Do not waste YOUR money ON THE SCJD EXAM. I finished THE SCJD IN July but HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO get A job. ??? Don't waste YOUR time and money.

Here is a link to get you started:
Communication Skills!!!
Even if you don't get a job right away with the Developer Certification, it is very beneficial. Working through the exam gives you an opportunity to learn a lot! I am of strong belief that the exam is top notch! [/B]

 
Betty Shew
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Hi, there,
Before I started doing SCJD, I thought I had had tons of knowledge of Java(since 1997). Actually, I still feel frustrated in figuring out how to design a whole thing. I absolutely agree with positive guys above. It is definitely a great opportunity to update your technology and train you to be better programmer. Believe it or not, do it.
Of course, you will pay for such opportunity. Do you pay your tuition in school? Do you pay your on-line course? What's wrong with paying cert exam? So, "waste time, waste money" sounds funny to me. Cutting edge knowledge cannot be evaluated with money. For job hunting, hiring managers need to be reeducated to recognize cert's value. It may take time.
Betty S
 
ruilin yang
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Betty,
You made very good points above. I got SCJP2 & SCJD2. I am working hard to go SCEA2 soon taking time from my heavy work schedule.
I feel it is much better way to learn than to go to formal courses. I went to a few classes for programming. I found to take certification I learn much more since I need not only to understand the technology, but also I have to apply it to solve real problems.
The understanding of some hiring managers need to be improved.
Regards
Ruilin
 
Levent Tinaz
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Originally posted by shanmugam soundrapandian:
please do not waste money. i have finished SCJD o JULY but i donot get job. there is AD for JAVA.
pls.don't waste yr time and money
best regards
sounadr


Why don't you change your profession? (Like, opening a bagel store.) It might work for you.
 
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