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Web Start and wireless

 
Burk Hufnagel
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I'm looking into developing for wireless devices and I'm wondering if there's a place for Web Start in the J2ME arena, or is it "limited" to J2SE?
Thanks,
Burk
 
Mark Herschberg
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The MIDP spec talked very little about OTA (over the air) provisioning. It basically waved its hand on the subject and avoided it. It's mostly vendor specific. I created a (patent-pending) custom solution at my last company.
JSR-124 may also have some bearing on this area. Although it is J2EE, MIDlets and similar application may be supported by J2EE backends.
Note that phone companies have a very different (read: protective) culture, wrt their devices, and so will be slower to adopt such systems.
--Mark
 
Burk Hufnagel
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Nark,
That soungs like a "No."
Okay, I don't expect that Web Start is a solution to every problem.
Thanks for the info.
Burk
 
Mark Herschberg
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It is current no, and not likely anytime soon. However, these concepts make even more sense on wireless devices then on desktops. I suspect we'll see some basic functionality soon, OTA stuff, but expanded functionality not for a while. We'll also see it first on handhelds, before phones, simply because, as I said before, the phone companies aren't very open with their hardware.
--Mark
 
Mauro Marinilli
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Hi Burk,
If you're interested, in the book (that doesn't cover ONLY JNLP, but the whole Java deployment issue as a whole) I consider J2ME MIDP advanced deployment services, with some working example code.
As for JNLP in the Java wireless world I am a bit skeptical, because of the bandwidth costs associated with XML files and the overall JNLP mechanism. Maybe on more complex profiles in the future, but as it is now, the JNLP protocol seems a bit too desktop-centric.
Cheers,
Mauro
 
Burk Hufnagel
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I figured that bandwidth might be an issue - especially here in the States.
But like I said, I don't expect Web Start to be the solution for every distribution problem.
 
Mark Herschberg
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Originally posted by Mauro Marinilli:

As for JNLP in the Java wireless world I am a bit skeptical, because of the bandwidth costs associated with XML files and the overall JNLP mechanism.

In my wireless product, we got up to 70-80% compression on our XML data. I haven't looked at the JNLP wireline protocol that closely. I wonder if there's a way to embed or call out to a compressional alogithm to cut down on this overhead. I'm sure it could be done, because I can't imagine the specs would be so detailed about an implementation.
--Mark
 
Mauro Marinilli
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Mark,
I wasn't clear in the previous post, sorry.
It's not a mere bandwidth problem.
JNLP was designed specifically for the Java 2 Standard Edition, in that uses custom classloaders to implement some of its features "gracefully".
Having said that, maybe they will change the specs in the next future, but as it is now is strongly targeted _only_ to the J2SE.
 
Michael Yuan
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What about PersonalJava then? It should be much closer to J2SE than to MIDP ... For example, should JWS run on Sharp Zaurus PDA?
Any experience?
 
Mauro Marinilli
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Michael,
I'm not sure but I don't think it will be possible, at least in the near future.
Thanks for your observation anyway, it sounds pretty interesting..
Mauro
 
Burk Hufnagel
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Okay, for now Web Start is J2Se based.
I didn't know it was using class loaders though. I got to attend a session on creatign and using custom class loaders at JavaOne. Seems like a pretty cool thing. I guess I need to spend some of my copious free time looking into them too.
 
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