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Christophe Verré
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I hear John talking about Dojo Toolkit, Weblets... That sounds like a lot of stuff to know to be able to do something correct with Ajax. Not only do we have to learn Ajax/JSF, but also all the tools around it.
If I were to ask an employee to train for Ajax/JSF,
how long and how much would it need ? Terrible amount of work ?
 
Linda Walters
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Remember that AJAX is a technique and not a technology, so you are really talking about the employee learning the things from which AJAX is made, namely JavaScript and XML and then, if you are using AJAX with JSF, learning JSF too.

If we assume (yes, I know that's dangerous) that the employee is already a software developer, say a Java programmer, then learning JavaScript will not be too big a step. The important thing with learning JavaScript is not so much the syntax of the language itself, which is not that hard, but learning how to use it to manipulate the DOM and to parse the XML received from the server and understanding the basics of XML. JSF could be the most difficult part, especially if the employee has not been exposed to JSP.

If we assume that the employee is a non-developer, say an HTML web page writer, then the overall learning curve will be much steeper and the risk of failure will be high unless the person is a very quick study.

Do not make the error that so many Java (or C#) developers make in assuming that since JavaScript is an interpreted scripting language, that it is a toy or a tool for amatuers or less-skilled developers.

As Crane and Pascarello say in "AJAX In Action", "This is real coding and requires real discipline".
 
Christophe Verré
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Thanks Linda.
So you mean that a Java programmer who knows Servlet/JSP should not have difficulties to get around Ajax ? What about the tools mentionned above ?

What scared me was John saying :

However, integration between JSF and Ajax requires significant effort if starting from scratch. So, as part of the book writing process, we decided to create 3 new open source projects on Java.net to provide common facilities to the JavaServer Faces Ajax component development community:
* Weblets resource packaging
* Mabon data fetch over Ajax
* D� Delta-DOM rendering over Ajax


That sounds like a lot of work to do (study + hands-on) before getting on with it, doesn't it ?
 
Christophe Verré
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Linda,
About "AJAX In Action", did you read it ? If so, do you recommand it ?
 
Adeel Ansari
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Originally posted by Satou kurinosuke:
About "AJAX In Action", did you read it ? If so, do you recommand it ?


It has the examples with ASP.net, and I guess no JSP/Java related stuff. I read just one or two chapters somewhere, though. Anyways, as said earlier, AJAX is a technic not a technology. So, you can go with AJAX In Action. It is a good book.

Just my two cents.
Thanks.
 
Eric Pascarello
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Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:


It has the examples with ASP.net, and I guess no JSP/Java related stuff. I read just one or two chapters somewhere, though. Anyways, as said earlier, AJAX is a technic not a technology. So, you can go with AJAX In Action. It is a good book.

Just my two cents.
Thanks.


Do not want to jump into the promotion, but to answer the question. AIA covers Java, PHP, and .NET technologies. We have people on Manning's forum that have the projects working in asp and CF also. Kept the code simple on the server, what most developers need is the clientside portion, you already know how to code on the server!

Eric
 
Linda Walters
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Satou,

I have read "AJAX in Action" and several other AJAX books. I've even read "AJAX for Dummies"! (no kidding, 'AfD' is actually a good book. very basic, but good if all you need is an overview).

Personally I think that "AJAX in Action" is the best overall AJAX book. I'm expect that "Pro JSF and Ajax: Building Rich Internet Components" very good too, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Maybe I'll win one of the copies here. But with the emphasis on JSF it is probably not as general as 'AiA'.

For most Java developers I think the main thing is to get a good understanding of JavaScript and neither look down on it as 'just a scripting language' nor expect it to do all that Java will do. The most important thing in learning JavaScript it to really be familiar with how JavaScript can manipulate the DOM and effectively parse XML.
 
Christophe Verré
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Thank you all
 
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