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Is JSF worth it?  RSS feed

 
Zein Nunna
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Hi guys,

I'm contemplating using JSF. As it stands I've been using JSP, Servlets & a Tomcat 5.5.17.

I've been reading alot of forums/tutorials etc. on JSF. They seem a lot of hard work, for not much benefit at all?

What I'm wanting to know is what are the core benefits people have experienced using JSF? Are they really worthwhile learning?

I also have an old project, that I may 'convert' to JSF, would something like this be adviseable?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts
Zein
[ March 05, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
 
Cameron Wallace McKenzie
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I think frameworks are a good idea. They save you from reinventing the wheel, although sometimes they do too much, which is where the complaint of them being too complex comes in.

JSF is certainly good for what it does. I'm actually in the process of redoing my site in JSF. I'll let you know how it goes.

-Cameron McKenzie
 
Bear Bibeault
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I tried JSF and didn't care for it. It obfuscated too much of what was going on, and was too much work for what it delivered. It's an interesting concept, but fitting a square peg into a round hole is rarely pretty.
 
Gregg Bolinger
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My opinion is no, JSF is not with the effort. Key word there is effort. I don't believe any framework should require a great amount of effort to learn and use.

However, opinions vary greatly, especially on JavaRanch so I am sure you'll get as many yay's as nay's. Best bet is to give it a go and form your own opinion.

[ And when you have decided that JSF isn't a good fit, take a look at Stripes. ]
 
Ken Januski
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I wonder if anyone would care to elaborate on why it's not worth the effort? I'm not at all disagreeing with the statement and am also not trying to bash JSF.

I've toyed with it a bit in the little Java programming that I currently do. And it also didn't seem worth it. But I'd be interested in knowing if more active Java programmers don't think it's worth the time because rich internet applications just aren't worth the time, because they are but it's too much work to do it with JSF, because they are but it's easier to do it with Ajax, with RubyOnRails and Ajax, with .net, or whether it has nothing to do with rich internet applications and it's not worth it for some other reasons.

Really just a request for greater detail from anyone who has the time to answer.

Ken
 
Bear Bibeault
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Originally posted by Ken Januski:
because they are but it's too much work to do it with JSF


On the nosey.

Sorry, I don't have the time to go into nauseating details, but I find that I can write simple, clean, and rich web applications using simple tools without resorting to Rube Goldberg frameworks.

On the server I use a simple, light-weight front controller that employs the Command Pattern, and on the client side, light-weight libraries such as Prototype or jQuery.

Anything more complicated just gets in the way.
 
Sajan Patel
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Originally posted by Zein Nunna:
I also have an old project, that I may 'convert' to JSF, would something like this be adviseable?


I would say it is worth to learn and use JSF.
For above sentence, I would say you should start partial implement your application in JSF. I found bit difficulty in converting Struts application to JSF partial(few module at a time) but it was bit easy to convert application(JSP/Servlet) to JSF.
 
Sani babangida
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I did a web project sometime ago and i feel JSF is one of the nicest things to use, Its very easy the navigation, the concept of Mangaged Beans, another advantage of using JSF is that you can develop your own UI components , i used JSF for this project then i needed to develop a table that
contained Graphs which represented different temperature Sensors.and the graphs needed to be constantly changing at different intervals. i tried using struts for this project but it really never worked
so i developed a Graph JSF component and the rest was history

With the number of IDEs around that make programming with JSF easy( Jdeveloper,Jbuilder, NetBeans), i feel JSF is the future
 
Hussein Baghdadi
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At least, I feel it is the easiest component-based framework to learn (you already know JavaBeans, JSP), but don't try to write your views by hand, it is pain.
Tapestry is complicated and I didn't try Wicket.
If you decided to go with JSF and suggest you employ JDeveloper.
By the way, I suggest to check JBoss Seam too.
 
Tim Holloway
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I think that JSF can either be one of the simplest ways to do JEE web development or one of the most complex.

A basic JSF app needs vanilla JavaBeans, JSF view definitions, and a set of navigation rules. Plus, of course, the stock infrastructure.

The first thing that can start making life more complicated is when you start using short-circuiting options on the controls.

The second complication is when you start coding JSF-specific code into your backing beans. Something that almost everyone does too much and too early, me included.

The [i]real[/b] fun begins when you start playing with the less obvious lifecycle stages.

After that, it's pretty much all a downhill slide.

More than any other technology I know of, JSF is one where you should always ask yourself how deep into trouble do you need to get. And then ask again. The architecture makes simple things simple and complex things possible. Not everything is as simple as it could be, but as a general rule, most apps shouldn't be spending a lot of effort rummaging around in the guts of the framework.
 
Zein Nunna
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I've been looking at AJAX also, to see what benefits it offers - I havent used AJAX so i'm relying on people who have used it opinions.

So my question is, how does AJAX compare against JSF, and how does it compare with JSF - I can't really see JSF adding much if you have AJAX there.

Also whats the complexity rating of using AJAX comapred to JSF, similar?

Thanks for you views.
Regards
Zein
 
Gregg Bolinger
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You can't compare AJAX and JSF. They are two different technologies and can coexist quite nicely together (assuming you like JSF).
 
Bear Bibeault
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Comparing Ajax to JSF is like asking "What's better? The brake or the gas pedal?"
 
Sani babangida
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There are lots of AJAX enabled JSF components out there that you can customize for your JSF application opposed to Struts. and i think both technologies blend in Nicely
 
Tim Holloway
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Actually, since JSF is based on GUI components and AJAX makes GUI components interactive, it's a marriage made in Heaven. I can get the benefits of live-action JavaScript, but don't have to mess directly with all that js code! Just plugin in a tag, set some attributes, and go.
 
Tammy Easterby
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Hey y'all,

I'm not feelin' the love with JSF yet. I agree that frameworks are a good idea. They save you from reinventing the wheel. However, I feel you have more control over your page elements when using JSP. That's just my personal opinion. Like, I'm trying to do something simple and stupid in JSF, and I'm thinking... how in the world am I gonna do *that*? Whereas in JSP, I'd know what to do. Cuz it's the same HTML form element stuff over and over again.
 
Zein Nunna
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Thanks guys.

The replies have been fab.

I was very sceptical of JSF initially. I think that view has been reinforced by most peoples experinces here.

I do like some of the fucntionality of JSF e.g. validation etc. however is it worth the extra work? hmmn, probably not based on the response.

I won't mind learning it JSF though. I think it will be useful in the future.

Thanks you very much for your thoughs and opinions.
[ March 07, 2007: Message edited by: Zein Nunna ]
 
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