Does J2ME replace WAP/WML.?

[Bruce Jin]

It seems to me that WML is no longer hot since wireless devices are getting more memory and can use J2ME.
True?
Thanks.

[Mark Herschberg]

Yes. No. It depends.
J2ME replaces WAP/WML in the same way that Java replaces HTTP/HTML. It doesn't really, it's just another tool which may be more applicable to a particular problem.
At my last company we bet for J2ME and against WAP, believing that was devices got more powerful, and bandwith stayed relativley expensive, J2ME was a better solution because it made use of the strengths of the system. I still believe this is true.

--Mark

[Byron Estes]

Originally posted by Bruce Jin:
It seems to me that WML is no longer hot since wireless devices are getting more memory and can use J2ME.
True?
Thanks.

It may have affected the "buzz", but while they are in a since competing technologies, I don't see them as "replacements".
Think about it this way. J2ME has the notion of midlets which are just pieces of software that run within the client container on the constrained devices VM. These midlets give you more control and can create a richer experience for the user. WAP/WML is just a another browser language updated and refined for use in a wireless network. So in my opinion it's just the same old debate between a thin client/browser based application and a thick client application. Some applications can benefit from the graphical capabilities and require unique ways of interacting with server. Others will be best served through the ubiquity of a browser interface.
Regards,

[Bruce Jin]

Thanks for the reply.
I met an Engineer from Motorola and he said his new device is getting almost enough memory (100k+) that he can just use HTML instead of WML. Is he using J2ME to program he device browser? I have to ask him next time.
Thanks

[Byron Estes]

Originally posted by Bruce Jin:
Thanks for the reply.
I met an Engineer from Motorola and he said his new device is getting almost enough memory (100k+) that he can just use HTML instead of WML. Is he using J2ME to program he device browser? I have to ask him next time.
Thanks

Hard to tell...
He could be alluding the possibility of having an html based browser (...kind of like what PocketPC does with IE).
The only protocol availble with Midlets at this time is Http. Essentially, you can connect to servlets/jsp using the connection class in the java.io.net package. Naturally you could send a variety of types of data over the connection (...depending on the firewall). I assume you could use tunneling too, but I don't know what kind of performance you'd get.
I'm assuming you know how WAP and wireless internet works in general...just in case you don't here's a quick pitch:
Wireless internet applications and wired internet applications are not very different at all. Sure you need to deal with some limitation is bandwidth, memory, screen size and user interface (buttons, etc...), but at it's essence a markup based wireless application is not different. The key is the gateway server. Your phone connects to your service providers network, alot of them have gateways that connect to the internet. Their network routes "internet" traffic to the gateway where it is converted from some binary phone protocol to http. The http request is sent to the wireless browser application. At this point there is no difference except the markup language used (i.e. wml, hdml, etc...). Your application processes the request and sends back an http response. The response goes back to the gateway. The gateway converts it back into the phone protocol and pushes it back to the device.
Regards,

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Byron Estes:

The only protocol availble with Midlets at this time is Http.

That's not quite correct on two counts. First, HTTP is the only protocol formally included in the MIDP spec. Vendors are free to include additional protocols. I have seen some that have added their own, such as FTP.
Second, a new version of the MIDP spec, I want to say 1.02, but I can't quite recall, includes HTTPS.
--Mark

[Byron Estes]

Thanks for claifying my statement on http being the only protocol. When I said that I was referring to the specification. I tend to avoid anything else because I can't count on it.
As far as the second, comment. I could be wrong, but I think you could always used https. After all it's really just http with ssl.
The following quote comes from Sun's J2ME Faq at
http://java.sun.com/products/j2mewtoolkit/FAQ.html
Q. Can I use other network protocols than HTTP and HTTPS in J2ME technology-based applications?
A. The MIDP specification only defines http:// URLS. The J2ME Wireless Toolkit also allows URLS beginning with https:// (for HTTPS connections). Additionaly, URLS beginning with socket:// and serversocket:// (for direct TCP/IP stream connections), datagram:// (for UDP datagrams) and comm:// (for serial connects) are included for experimental purposes only and are not tested or supported. To access the additional URLS, the enable_extra_protocols property must be set to true.
Regards,

[Debbie Argulkar]

Hi,
Here is an interesting discussion on J2ME and WAP that assures us that there is a future for both.
J2ME and WAP: Together forever?

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Byron Estes:
Thanks for claifying my statement on http being the only protocol. When I said that I was referring to the specification. I tend to avoid anything else because I can't count on it.
As far as the second, comment. I could be wrong, but I think you could always used https. After all it's really just http with ssl.

I am 100% positive you could not always use HTTPS. It was not there in version 1.0 and I had to investigate and implament solutions in its stead. :-)
Remember, those pages get updated, they don't reflect the state 2 years ago. :-)
--Mark

[Rishi Tyagi]

Oh God!!,
So many java guru's are giving their thoughts on this post. Really a nice question.
Exceuse me but i also have to say something about the same.
In my opinion the difference between the j2me and wml/wap is something like the difference between the core java (standalone java) and the HTML.
What i think j2me application can be compared with a standalone java application which can be run on the standalone machine and if needed can also access the resources on the net.
while the wml programs can be downloaded at runtime from any remote server what happens in case of html and wml pages.
So i think both technologies can't be compared in case of replacement as the basic aim behind the both technoloies is the different. one is for running at the standalone mobile device and another on the net.
Means as the HTML+Java servlets can't be replaced by standalone java in the same mannere wml/wap+java servlets can't be replaced by j2me.
With best regards to all java guru's,
Rishi

[Byron Estes]

Rishi,
I agree with you completely. Thanks for the complement...
Byron

--------------------------------------------
Mark,
I'm sure you're right. I created a OO trading platforme/framework and a number of brower based wireless applications for a large discount brokerage house. I started looking at J2ME while I was at JavaOne (...not the last one, but the one prior to that). I was in a session talking about security, as I'm sure you know, they frequenty talk more about what's coming than what already is. I built a few midlets, but lost interest because I don't really care for building GUI's. I'm more of a plumbing kind of guy.
...however, I just saw someone has an xml parser for J2ME, so I might play around with it again.
Regards,

[a sanjuan]

only http is required in midp 1.0.
https is possible using the wireless toolkit though.
the midp 2.0 draft does say that secure http MUST be supported in compliant devices, so i guess people complained about it, or the vendors wisened up.

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

I am 100% positive you could not always use HTTPS. It was not there in version 1.0 and I had to investigate and implament solutions in its stead. :-)
Remember, those pages get updated, they don't reflect the state 2 years ago. :-)
--Mark