India Election 2004

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Congress is running out of leaders ..

Priyanka has joined Congress so we have good pretty leader.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

Priyanka has joined Congress so we have good pretty leader.

You are right but I dunno whether she is a leader. I think she should have contested from Amethi and not Rahul. Also heard Rahul is sick after campaining.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
Even after killing hundreds of sikhs in 1984 riots???

If you really understand Indian politics then you must be knowing that all riots are political.
AW just because of 84 riots, do you think that Congress is not secular.
Then I tell you one more thing, in Ayoudhya it was Congress which opens the door of Mandir in the time of Vir Bahadur Singh.
DO you think Congress is Hindu party.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

.. Bearing in mind that calling even 'anyone' a liar might inspire a less-than-friendly rebuttal, perhaps you'd like to reconsider your response to the pretext?
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]

What I am saying is diffrentiating a person solely on the basis of 'place of birth'is wrong.If place of birth is valid criteria,then why not religion,sex?Making 'citizenship must' should be fine.But place of birth,religion,sex are not in the control of person.
Italian Consitution does not prevent foreign people to contest for 'high level' post:
Art. 51
{
All citizens of either sex are eligible for public office and for elected positions on equal terms, according to the conditions established by law
}
You can be Italian PM!!

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
You are right but I dunno whether she is a leader.

If she had joined Congress in 1999 election, then I am sure that Congress would have won and Priyanka would have been the youngest PM

[Pradeep bhatt]

You can be Italian PM!!

I wanna to be US President.
Countries which have been ruled by foreign powers(India, US) need law to ban PFO to hold high posts.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Then I tell you one more thing, in Ayoudhya it was Congress which opens the door of Mandir in the time of Vir Bahadur Singh.
DO you think Congress is Hindu party.

It means that Congress not secluar.

[Rashmi Tambe]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

If you really understand Indian politics then you must be knowing that all riots are political.

That is what i am trying to say...no party is secular, not even congress. come on, u have to accept this fact that indian politics is highly influenced by casts and communities. So no party can be true secular here. So when u say BJP is not secular, even congress is not. So on the scale pf secularism , both the parties stand same.
the way BJP supports hindus, congress supports muslims. Its all part of game. So if u r blaming BJP, u shd also blame congess...i have never understood this difference...when u support the major community in the country, suddenly u r not secular...and when u support the minorities, u immediately become secular!!!
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Rashmi Tambe ]

[Arjun Shastry]

Making an ammendment in constitution is the only thing that people(MPs) can do rather than carrying out anti-Sonia campaign.Making this change in article won't serve any purpose.In the last 50 years,How many foriegn born people did you see contesting for public office? 1,2,10??and how many of them did any antisocial activity?As somebody said earlier,BJP is runnnig this issue as political rather than serious interest.Even if they get 3/4th of seats,they won't take any interest in changing the Article.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

If Congress they will make Sonia the chief Justice also.
Congress is running out of leaders and depending on century old Nehru legacy.

Why do you guys mixup these issues ,I don't understand.Whether person should be eligible for xyz post has nothing to do with Congress(I) politics.It might be true Congress(I) is running out of leaders but that should not prevent foreign born Indian citizen(who is in a country for 35 years)for contesting for PM post.Do you think BJP isreally interested
in this issue other than political?

[Pradeep bhatt]

Whether person should be eligible for xyz post has nothing to do with Congress(I) politics.

It is all because Congress gets l(r)eaders from Nehru family. Some one said Prinyaka could have been PM in 1999.

[Rashmi Tambe]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

If she had joined Congress in 1999 election, then I am sure that Congress would have won and Priyanka would have been the youngest PM

Is is only the nehru-gandhi family that can rule this country? just because u belong to the so called GREAT gandhi family, u automatically get the congress presidenship and become candiate for the most imp seat in democracy, PM? Isn't it ridiculous?
why congress leaders r so blind to run behind gandhi family all their life? Let the gandhis proov their credibility by working for the party and country for atleast 5-10 yrs before directly rewarding them by such highest posts.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

Is is only the nehru-gandhi family that can rule this country? just because u belong to the so called GREAT gandhi family, u automatically get the congress presidenship and become candiate for the most imp seat in democracy, PM? Isn't it ridiculous?
why congress leaders r so blind to run behind gandhi family all their life? Let the gandhis proov their credibility by working for the party and country for atleast 5-10 yrs before directly rewarding them by such highest posts.

Now this is a different issue.Sonia or her kids have never said that
only they are eligible for those posts.Congress(I) leaders are choosing them.After 1991,Sonia was away from politics.Congress(I)had been infected by dictatorship since Indira Gandhi became PM in 1966.Infact in many Indian political parties,dictatorial democracy has always been there.Do you know Govindacharya of BJP?Before 1999,he was BJP's ideologue.The moment he said "Vajpyee is a mask and real leader is Advani',he became nowhere,Do you read anything about him today in media?Thats BJP's democracyDon't you get equivalent of zero when you do the folloing?
Shivsena - Bal Thackeray
Samajvadi Party - Mulayam Singh
TDP - Chandrababu Naidu
AIADMK - Jailalitha
TMC - Mamta Banerjee
Thats the problem .BJP's leadership understood slightly earlier so they were able to create second level leadrship at various levels in a country.
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Ram Abdullah D'Souza ]

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

That is what i am trying to say...no party is secular, not even congress. come on, u have to accept this fact that indian politics is highly influenced by casts and communities. So no party can be true secular here. So when u say BJP is not secular, even congress is not. So on the scale pf secularism , both the parties stand same.
the way BJP supports hindus, congress supports muslims. Its all part of game. So if u r blaming BJP, u shd also blame congess...i have never understood this difference...when u support the major community in the country, suddenly u r not secular...and when u support the minorities, u immediately become secular!!!
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Rashmi Tambe ]

That is why I support CPM which I beleive is the only secular party in India.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:
...no party is secular

the way BJP supports hindus, congress supports muslims.

I agree with you .. but I am talking what they claim to be.. because even BJP is not a Hindu party .. rt ?
Actually no party in India can claim to represent one community but internally everything(religion, dynasty, caste, bollywood etc.) will play major role.
After all India is different

[Sameer Jamal]

Sorry to say guys that people like us, who are called educated mass of India and is considered to be the future of India did not dicussed any developmental issue, we never bothered what election manifesto of a particular party promise in the election and neither care how much promises are made. I dont think India can become a developed nation in 2020 with such a thinking.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Countries which have been ruled by foreign powers(India, US) need law to ban PFO to hold high posts.

why only countries which have been ruled by foreign powers ??
AW when US was ruled by foreign powers? As I see they get seperated from their own nation and ruler.
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: R K Singh ]

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:
Sorry to say guys that people like us, who are called educated mass of India and is considered to be the future of India did not dicussed any developmental issue, we never bothered what election manifesto of a particular party promise in the election and neither care how much promises are made.

What to discuss about develeopment etc .. after all India is SHINING
I dont think India can become a developed nation in 2020 with such a thinking.
I dont know .. but I think Govt should more publicise this Goal .. like Rajiv Gandhi did for "21st Centuary".
In 80s I was also thinking like you .. that nothing will change in 21st centuary .. but now see .. we are in 21st centuary and obviously much better than 80s.

[Pradeep bhatt]

As I see they get seperated from their own nation and ruler.

Great Britain became foreign to them.

[Arjun Shastry]

{
Actually no party in India can claim to represent one community but internally everything(religion, dynasty, caste, bollywood etc.) will play major role.
}
Correct,exception might be CPI/CPI(M) but their leaders,their agenda is totally confused after USSR collapse. .If you ask any party insider,the first thing they gauge is how rich are you and how much you can donate to them.RSS which claims to be apolitical is also no exception to this.Political student organizations are no more than Hafta gangs in their regions.

[Arjun Shastry]

Hey,these guys are really very quick.They have updated Sari Stamede on that day itself I think.

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Hey,these guys are really very quick.They have updated Sari Stamede on that day itself I think.

Actually the above guys are smart and intelligent and the future belongs to them.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:

Actually the above guys are smart and intelligent and the future belongs to them.

okay, so you mean to say that future does not belong to India. :roll:

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

okay, so you mean to say that future does not belong to India. :roll:

This is what BJP people think.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:

Actually the above guys are smart and intelligent and the future belongs to them.

Well,many of them were really smart and intelligent(and honest) like Indrajit Gupta,AB Bardhan,BT Randive.People like MN Roy were really genius.Problem was their leadership was unable to spread their ideology after Nehruvian era.Indira Gandhi ,or Congress(I) in general used them from time to time to keep Jana Sangha(the then BJP) away from power.India's worker class which was highly tilted towards these communist leaders until early 70s got attracted towards regional parties like Shiv Sena etc as Central Govt was unable to solve their problems.This was happening in every state.It was becoming very difficult to bind every worker under same Marxist ideology in multicultural country like India.That resulted in regional parties.

[Balaji Loganathan]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
I was so worried who is going to replace Rajnikant. Now i dont need to.

[sunitha reghu]

Compliment not an insult

Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:

[San Su]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

Even after killing hundreds of sikhs in 1984 riots???

That is what they(Congress/BJP) claim about themself. My presonal view is totally different. I didn't want to make this thread another "Hindu-extremist-terrorist BJP Vs P-Sec, minority sucking Congress" thread.

[San Su]

Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:

That is why I support CPM which I beleive is the only secular party in India.

Do you know that CPM supported China in 1962 war with India? If that doesn't bother you, let me ask you this, What did they do to improve the lifes of the muslim community? Muslims in India is poorer than any other community and % of educated is less compared to Hindus or Christians. They live in gettos throughout India. Did any of the so called Secular parties try to improve the lifes of this community? They just give lip service to the people in the election time and occationally they issue statements to remind the minority community that they were not forgotton. That is it. If that is all you are looking from them, nothing else to say.

[Balaji Loganathan]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
Compliment not an insult

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
I didn't want to make this thread another "Hindu-extremist-terrorist BJP Vs P-Sec, minority sucking Congress" thread.

Whoever thinks that BJP is pro-Hindu party I laugh a lot though its true that it cashed the sentiments of majority of Hindu in the name of Ram but alas .. A political party cant be for one section of society.
Now there Hindu party tag has become bone in neck for them. Neither they are secular nor Hindu party now.
RSS has different work style and its non-political party (atleast they claim) And as I have met lot of people from RSS (they all are in my family) I know they have less to do with politics and more to do with society. They have only one agenda, a Hindu nation. And I again laugh when I realize that they fail to see that its next to impossible for India to be declared as OneReligion Nation.
Atleast I dont want India to be tagged as Hindu nation. I dont want India to be part of nations like Pakistan or any religious nation for that sake.
Becasue I believe Hinduism is not a religion. Its a way of life and whoever is following that life is Hindu. And all Indians follow more or less same lifestyle.

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
Muslims in India is poorer than any other community and % of educated is less compared to Hindus or Christians. They live in gettos throughout India.

Objection, your honour! Well, generalisations are always just that � generalisations: never accurate. Muslims are one of the (if the most) prosperous communities in Kerala. They are practical, educated, hardworking and RRICHH!

[San Su]

Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

Objection, your honour! Well, generalisations are always just that � generalisations: never accurate. Muslims are one of the (if the most) prosperous communities in Kerala. They are practical, educated, hardworking and RRICHH!

Did I say "all muslims are poor & uneducated"?. I said, in % wise, they are less compared to other communities.

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:

Italian Consitution does not prevent foreign people to contest for 'high

So, should Italy be the model that India (or any other country, for that matter) patterns her democratic system after? Italy, from what I've read, doesn't have the exhaustive bill of rights as US does.
Why should US or India do what other countries do, anyway? Each country has unique national security needs, cultural background & national psyche. And each country should fine tune one's governance according to these.

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

Is is only the nehru-gandhi family that can rule this country? just because u belong to the so called GREAT gandhi family, u automatically get the congress presidenship and become candiate for the most imp seat in democracy, PM? Isn't it ridiculous?
why congress leaders r so blind to run behind gandhi family all their life? Let the gandhis proov their credibility by working for the party and country for atleast 5-10 yrs before directly rewarding them by such highest posts.

Our own 'Amar-Akbar-Anthony' aka Capablanca Kepler has responded to this. But I wanted to added my piece anyway.
No one who votes says that only those of Nehru lineage or whose last name is Gandhi are fit to govern the country. The problem is the Gandhi name used to be very marketable in election times. The marketablity had to do a lot with poverty & illiteracy. The current leaders of Cong(I) want to regain the power of governance and are clueless about how to do that. So they latch on to the Gandhi name hoping beyond hope that just the name will do the trick. It might do the trick at the local/individual level & get Rahul elected. But that probably won't work at the national level.
Somewhat similar is what is happening in US this election year. The dems are so desperate to regain control of the WH that they are trying whatever they think will work; even to the extent of suggesting (through spokespersons and media) that Ralph Nader should not contest at all because they fear that he will steal some of their votes. CNN's Wolk Blitzer actually said so much to Nader (he did wrap it around 'it is said that').

[Bhau Mhatre]

That sure has been a lucky lastname in the last century. What was Feroz's original lastname before he changed it to Gandhi?

[San Su]

Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
That sure has been a lucky lastname in the last century. What was Feroz's original lastname before he changed it to Gandhi?

That sure was/is a lucky name and it will be a lucky name unless people realize that coming from Nehru family doesn't automatically make one a super-duper leader.

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

That sure was/is a lucky name and it will be a lucky name unless people realize that coming from Nehru family doesn't automatically make one a super-duper leader.

I think it will take one more generation before this happens. There is still a very large population of those equivalent to the baby-boomers in US.
<imo>
Just as the US baby-boomers remember where they were when JFK was shot & just as they remember Jackie Kennedy-0nasis with fondness & treat her like a royalty, the vast majority of the Indian equivalients remember the Nehru family & Indira & her legacy with a lot of fondness & nostalgia.
</imo>

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
What was Feroz's original lastname before he changed it to Gandhi?

I remember reading/hearing as a child that he was a Parsi.
But this site has a different explanation. I can vouch neither for the veracity of this site's claims nor for the site's integrity & objectivity.
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]
[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]