More info on OCP Java SE 17 Developer (Exam 1Z0-829) Programmer´s Guide: Amazon.com, InformIT, and the book website.
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
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More info on OCP Java SE 17 Developer (Exam 1Z0-829) Programmer´s Guide: Amazon.com, InformIT, and the book website.
More info on OCP Java SE 17 Developer (Exam 1Z0-829) Programmer´s Guide: Amazon.com, InformIT, and the book website.
In my humble opinion, you can pass the test without being able to write an actual working program of any complexity. The test does not test your ability to write code.Originally posted by Vedhas Pitkar:
Hi,
If the exam is titled Sun Certified Java PROGRAMMER then I think the person passing must be an average programmer if not a good one.I cannot understand how Khalid made this statement.
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Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
Originally posted by Khalid A. Mughal:
As I am perceiving from the discussion, winds of change are blowing at Sun to restructure this exam, which will combine theory with practice.
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
In my humble opinion, you can pass the test without being able to write an actual working program of any complexity. The test does not test your ability to write code.
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Aaron O'Brien
Originally posted by Aaron O'Brien:
I believe that the current certification process is fine and that the companies hiring programmers should take some responsibility for making the wrong decision and not blame the certification process itself. It is up to the programmer to be familiar with what they learn and if they aren't then they will be left behindl.
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Aaron O'Brien
Aaron O'Brien
SCJP 1.4
Aaron O'Brien
Originally posted by Marlene Miller:
...However, I cannot use the language to solve practical problems. I cannot design objects that collaborate to achieve some practical purpose. That is a different skill and set of experiences.
Do employers care that I understand the language in this way? No. Will understanding the language this way help me in my job? No. But I can help other people when they are confused. Will understanding the language this way help me to understand another language? Yes.
Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
This certification is for programmers interested in demonstrating proficiency in the fundamentals of the Java[tm] programming language using the Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition (J2SE[tm] technology).
This performance-based certification is for programmers and developers who are already familiar with the basic structure and syntax of the Java[tm] programming language, and who have a need to demonstrate advanced proficiency in developing complex, production-level applications using Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition (J2SE[tm] technology).
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Originally posted by Khalid A. Mughal:
Theory and Practice
As a guest author this week, maybe I can pose a couple of questions (it will turn out they are quite a few) in this forum.
I am very much interested in views on the following observation made by some of the readers.
People can pass the Programmer Certification exam without having written any code.
Is this what the present Programmer Certification exam encouraging?
Emphasizing theory and no practice?
Should the exam be changed?
Do employers know or care that they are getting "theoretical" programmers?
In a similar vain, one could ask the following questions:
Would you feel safe if people, who had only read the driving manual and never driven a real car, were unleased onto the unsuspecting rush-hour down-town traffic?
Would you vote for a sheriff that had practiced horse-riding only on a rocking horse?
(I know at least which horse to bet on.)
[Disclaimer: No innuendos to the sheriffs that go galloping on this site.]
What do you think?
Cheers.
-- khalid
MobileBytes blog - Sharing Technology - My Programming Knols
Originally posted by Fred Grott:
I have found that as a successfull programmer one must be able to interview a customer, anayzle their needs, and mathc up the project requirments of a project against business objectives all outside the 'normal' coding theory and rpactices taught in certififcation programs..
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Originally posted by Fred Grott:
Ceritification in project context where past project exp is verified and analyzed is of course a good thing while certification for itslelf without the exp context being measured is a recipe for project disasters..
Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
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Cheers, Jeff (SCJP 1.4 all those years ago...)
More info on OCP Java SE 17 Developer (Exam 1Z0-829) Programmer´s Guide: Amazon.com, InformIT, and the book website.
Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:
If I am not wrong, those are System Analyst's duty to interview a customer, analyze their needs and match up the project requirments of a project against business objectives...![]()
Maybe programmers at your place have to do the System Analyst's jobs... Here in the country that I'm currently residing, those are System Analyst's jobs... Then the S.A. will assign the coding job to the programmers, after he/she has done the specification development part...![]()
Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:
<lots of details about methodologies>
I agree that an understanding of the above methodologies is important, but aren't those topics usually covered in graduate school? Is the SCJP certification intended to replace a master's degree?
Originally posted by Jeff Bosch:
So, here's one employer where the cert didn't used to make a difference, but now it does because I've helped make them aware of just what the cert means and where my skill and experience levels are. I think any applicant who can clearly and honestly tell a potential employer why they got a particular cert, what the cert really means, and what the applicant can do for the success of the employer stands a pretty good chance of at least getting past the screening interviews.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Well said Dan. WRT your question, these topics are covered about as well as basic programming skills are covered in a CS program--minimally at best.
Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
And IMHO that is horrible! Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't have one person take the lead. However, no one person will get it right. I go on at length about this in my upcoming book (due out this spring after my applications are finished). Smarter, better skilled people do better at just about any job at any level. Developers who can help with these tasks will be better than those who can't.
Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:
So in that case, a developer has to do anything, both SA's jobs(Analyzing) and Programmer's jobs(Coding). I think that's not specialization anymore...
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