SCJP gives path way to life goal !

[Brain Miron]

Some people says ANYONE can pass the SCJP Exam and that is the most
stupid statement I knew from this JavaRanch. Yes anyone can pass the sun
if he has strong persistence.And also he become computer programer cos of
his study.I think most advantage of certification exams is people can get
15 years experince in one year time.SCJP is life changing process, it gives us
extra skills such as fast learning,group working,reading books also improve
language skills.But collega Diploma or Digree gives us narrow work hards only.
Lot of people who had B.sc in computer scinece tell me double invoking
of trim() to String s=" a b c d " gives abcd, but only SCJP person told me
output is "a b c d".Some popular software developer wrote 3 pages codes for
parsrInt() cos he don't know java has in built method.Only SCJP know method
skills of java.
Modern days there have lot of technologies.So learning all of them
in digree is foolish thing.We can do job only one technology.Linux,JAVA,.net,
all have their own technolohy.Even you learn all in master leval final result is
half leaning.In same time If you learn only one technology you can be a master
in short time.Cos jsp & asp do same job.If you learn jsp with full leval it is
more good for company.Even technolohy become easy to use, So small child
can build dynamic web site.
Java is one technology and company which use java they need only
java not VB or DotNet. Other thing is sun has path SCJP to SCJD ,SCWD
So inside company SCJP person can easyly win their program skills with java
basics(SCJP).Interpersonal Skills is one interligence and math & logical skills
is another interligence.Company need to hire two people for two tasks.How
Bill Cinton become java programer with his Interpersonal Skills?

[Vijay Vaddem]

Excellent....well said buddy..

[Serghei Jelauc]

My respect!!!

[Sania Marsh]

I had to teach and grade some students taking java course. I used to feel bad failing anyone, so I would keep giving them more time and set up extra classes. After months of putting myself through hell, I realized not everyone can do it. I don't know what's the reason, is it their way of thinking, lack of basic knowlege, lack of confidence or just lasiness.. whatever it is, but yes, not everyone can do it.

[Anselm Paulinus]

A lot of people can not program, few can and even a smaller percentage of these understand pointers; then there are a lot fewer who even make sense of **pointer. It is just a normal course of life.

[Robert Hayes]

Originally posted by Rita Moore:
I had to teach and grade some students taking java course. I used to feel bad failing anyone, so I would keep giving them more time and set up extra classes. After months of putting myself through hell, I realized not everyone can do it. I don't know what's the reason, is it their way of thinking, lack of basic knowlege, lack of confidence or just lasiness.. whatever it is, but yes, not everyone can do it.

What's even sadder is that many of those people get hired by companies to write software

[Andy Zhu]

What's even sadder is that many of those people get hired by companies to write software

Even much sadder is that not as many people with scjp/scjd/... as those people are hired by those companies, because ....

[K Riaz]

Originally posted by Brain Miron:

Lot of people who had B.sc in computer scinece tell me double invoking
of trim() to String s=" a b c d " gives abcd, but only SCJP person told me
output is "a b c d".S

Universities are not training companies. If you do a degree in Computer Science, you will not be taught how every method works in the Java API, but more on the "core" computing subjects. Its abit foolish to ask students what the trim() method does without referring to the API, which states that only leading and trailing whitespace is removed. You tested them on memory, not knowledge. A much better way would have been to ask them to write some sort of algorithm.

Originally posted by Andy Zhu:


Even much sadder is that not as many people with scjp/scjd/... as those people are hired by those companies, because ....

They get hired because they can prove that they can do the job during the interview. The interviewer probably sees right through the certified candidate's "text book regurgitated" answer who gets lost the moment they're asked something out of the norm, hence no job. Whereas the experienced candidate with no certification can draw upon real-world experience with a proven track record of delivery.

If I were interviewing 2 candidates, where one was certified with a Computing degree, and the other (also a Computing Graduate) had 12 months of commercial paid experience where he/she successfully completed all assigned projects and met the clients needs, I would be more interested in the latter candidate. You will find that many employers in the west do the same. I have only ever seen a handful of Java jobs wanting candidates to be certified. I wonder why?
[ February 19, 2005: Message edited by: Kashif Riaz ]

[K Riaz]

Originally posted by Brain Miron:

Lot of people who had B.sc in computer scinece tell me double invoking
of trim() to String s=" a b c d " gives abcd, but only SCJP person told me
output is "a b c d".S

Universities are not training companies. If you do a degree in Computer Science, you will not be taught how every method works in the Java API, but more on the "core" computing subjects. Its abit foolish to ask students what the trim() method does without referring to the API, which states that only leading and trailing whitespace is removed. You tested them on memory, not knowledge. A much better way would have been to ask them to write some sort of algorithm.

Originally posted by Andy Zhu:


Even much sadder is that not as many people with scjp/scjd/... as those people are hired by those companies, because ....

They get hired because they can prove that they can do the job during the interview. The interviewer probably sees right through the certified candidate's "text book regurgitated" answer who gets lost the moment they're asked something out of the norm, hence no job. Whereas the experienced candidate with no certification can draw upon real-world experience with a proven track record of delivery.

If I were interviewing 2 candidates, where one was certified with a Computing degree, and the other (also a Computing Graduate) had 12 months of commercial paid experience where he/she successfully completed all assigned projects and met the clients needs, I would be more interested in the latter candidate. You will find that many employers in the west do the same. I have only ever seen a handful of Java jobs wanting candidates to be certified. I wonder why?

Experience is worth its weight in gold, and than that of any cerification.
[ February 19, 2005: Message edited by: Kashif Riaz ]

[Andy Zhu]

Hey, Kashif Riaz:

thanks for paying attention to my posting and commenting on it.

I have a different view about the issue: I agree experience is valuable. However, experience != # of years of paid commercial work. My classmate got into a leading IT consulting firm after graduation, working with colleagues of several working years. However, he has been a major tech person in their division after 3 months of work because of the rigorous and formal training in our program. He doesn't even have a scjp and he actually discouraged me when I was preparing. But the point here is experience is not the time of working. In practice, there is dilema: a couple of hours of interview is not sufficient to evaluate experience; thus it is just down to the point to measure the working time. And I have more supporting stories from my friends and myself.

However, as a straight tech person, there are some drawbacks: many may not have business training, may not have a good training to express themselve well (worse has to do it in a pressing time limit of a couple of hours), may not have some soft skills, ... I think some of these traits are what those companies look for. This is part of reasons we see more "less teches" do heavier tech work in those companies.

However, I believe for those straight techers who survived rigorous training of "hard skill" are capable to learn the "soft skill" given a chance. Part of hard training can be certificate, if you have a scjd you know what I mean.