Win a copy of Succeeding with AI this week in the Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Paul Clapham
  • Ron McLeod
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Knute Snortum
Saloon Keepers:
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Moores
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
  • Piet Souris
Bartenders:
  • salvin francis
  • fred rosenberger
  • Frits Walraven

cost of living

 
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am from India. And I am looking for a junior java position in the U.S.
From the feedback I am receiving, my initial salary will be around 50K
could anyone tell me, HOW MUCH DOES 50K MEAN after deducting all the expenses of living in the US ie. accomodation, food , travel etc.
(I am especially interested in tbe state of California)
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 63
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Archana,
Minimum salary for California is 50-55k. Your company has to pay you that much if you are in California. Cost of living depends again on which part of California you live. Silicon Valley/Bay area is the most expensive. Rents are high(compared to most of the U.S). If you are single and share an apartment here, you might be able to save a tiny bit. But if you are coming as a junior programmer, 50k is not bad but it would be wise to choose to work in a less expensive state initially.
 
Archana Gupta
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks
Could you tell me which states are cheaper, with reference to cost of living?
Also, just to get an idea, how much does a non-computer professional earn on an average, say a teacher or a management professional?
Are there any sites which could give me such information?
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The US is a big place and the cost of living varies widely. An apartment in Silicon Valley could easily run you $1500 or more a month (without roommates). And California has the highest taxes of any state in the union with New York being number 2 (the order changes from year to year however). The cheapest places are places of dire poverty and little economic opportunity (American Indian reservations in South Dakota). In some places $50K is a huge salary and in others you would barely get by (the average per capita income in Silicon valley is something like $82k a year). If you are coming here on an H1-B visa, you are supposed to be paid the prevailing market wage. Where ever it is I hope it is enough.
 
Archana Gupta
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks a lot Oliver
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 92
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
how about boston
what is the cost of living
given that you are provided accomadation
what about bench period
how long can a co put you on bench
Any ideas
 
Archana Gupta
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Pardon my ignorance Majid, BUT WHAT IS A BENCH PERIOD??
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, I'm not a big fan of "bean town" but a lot of people like it a lot. Massachusetts used to be called "taxachusetts" but then they started electing Republicans up there. If your definition of quality of life includes museums, universities, hospitals and cultural institutions, Boston has it in spades.
The winter weather is terrible. Houses are all heated with oil so you never know how much you're going to have to pay for heat. A lot of high tech industry. Overall not the cheapest place to live but very cosmopolitan.
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
By "bean town" I mean Boston,Mass. not Bangalore.
 
Majid Khan
Ranch Hand
Posts: 92
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Archana
it is something like this people take you on a h1B and
then if they do not send you to a client's side they
do not pay you ,just give some allowances , i think
about $500 p m
maybe somebody who has gone thro this should ans
are you taking the offer?
Oliver
All offers(actually just a few) i have are max 50k,
irrespective of location
so i have to jump, but is 50k below industy standards ???
am willing to rough it out
how cold is it in boston
when company say they provide accomadation do they mean for the
oil & electicity expenses also?
 
Archana Gupta
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is this bench period thing legal?
I mean unless you sign a contract of some kind allowing a reduced salary, this sure looks like exploitation!!!
Or are you talking about body shoppers, who apparently ship off to America, highly unqualified people from other countries, and then exploit them very lucratively?
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
First, I'm not sure what a bench period is but it is not unusual to have a "probationary" period (sometimes as long as six months) where the company doesn't make a full commitment to you as an employee. Usually the only thing left out of compensation for this period is health and/or pension benfits, not salary. To pay you less for six months would be highly unusual but probably legal.
Employers almost never provide accomodations of any type, with or with out heat or electricity. Any commitment to do so would be unusual for an American Company. Sometimes they will spring for "relocation expenses" which are deductible from their corporate income tax but not always.
If I was from India and I was used to living in a hot,humid climate and I was going to make $50 max, I would choose some place from St. Louis, MO. south to Houston,Texas (west) and Altanta, GA. (east). The weather would agree with you there and the cost of living for the US is moderate. $50K in Dothan,Alabama (say) is good pay.
 
Rancher
Posts: 241
Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would agree with Oliver's recommendations. There was just an article on how dramatically the standard of living changes for the same salary. Frankly I think the statistics greatly understate matters. Living in that area of the country would be more comfortable and your dollar would go much much further.
 
Greenhorn
Posts: 25
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oliver,
I have to disagree with St. Louis being an agreable place for someone used to India. It gets damn cold in in St. Louis. Other places you may want to consider are Raliegh/Durham area in North Carolina. Lots of Java jobs, good pay, cost of living is not bad, and climate is nice also. Florida is, of course, warm....Virginia Beach, Va is nice also...and the median family income is something like 40K...so 50K can go a bit further for you while you are working on experience. Just remember that the Northeast US is expensive AND cold. But if you can stick it out for a year or two...then you have your pick of the country.
Good Luck
 
Sheriff
Posts: 5782
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I currently live and work in Research Triangle Park( www.rtp.org Raleigh/Durham ) NC and since I too am originally from Bangalore I should say the weather here is almost like its back home
What's more, houses are about $200,000 cheaper than in the west-coast, taxes are lower, and there are lots and lots of java jobs here. Average pay for a java engineer with about 2years of experience is around 60K.
Think about it.
Ajith
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lee:
I knew St. Louis was hot and miserable in the summer but I didn't know it was cold and miserable in the winter.
Ok, south from Memphis, Tenn. then. Towns like Little Rock, Ar., New Orleans, Shreveport, LA, Jackson,Miss (home of WorldCom), Huntsville,Mobile,Al.,Atlanta,Decatur,GA, Raleigh-Durham,NC, Jacksonvile,Tallahasie, FLA.
 
Lee Reedy
Greenhorn
Posts: 25
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oliver:
Yes it can be. A little story. I attended college in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for a year (you want to talk about cold!) For spring break (in March) me and a buddy headed down to Kansas City, Mo for the week to stay with his sister. The first two days it was 75 degrees, sunny...absolutely beautiful. Then the temperature took a nose dive....12 degrees outside for the high! Kansas City and St.Louis are a few hundred miles apart...east and west...but about the same level.
 
Greenhorn
Posts: 18
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, you�ve got a lot of advice here. As you can see, like most places, people here have definite ideas about where�s the best place to live. I�ve lived on both coasts and quite a few places in between, and find people who are happy about where they are(and not) pretty much everywhere.
The URL below has a cost of living calculator which may help you see what the difference is from one place to another.
Good Luck
Landerson
http://www.recruiterresources.com/resumes.htm
 
Majid Khan
Ranch Hand
Posts: 92
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
These guys are co's and not b shoppers
Lee is right if u can stick around for a year then maybe u can choose the location. BUT
we people from India do not have much choices either take up the offer or some else will grab it.
I have attended quiet a few interviews and no one is willing to
pay more than 50k although there are many ad's but very few exp people
U guys are sitting on the other side of the fence
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 316
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wish I gotten in on this thread sooner.
I may not be thinking of the same "bench time" as this discussion, but I'm guessing it may be similar. The consulting company I currently work for offers three different types of compensation.
1. Benefitted Lower pay, but you get health benefits, holidays, and "bench time". Bench time (in this case anyway) means that you get paid while in between projects. Of course, this means that the company is losing money, and will want to get you off the bench, i.e. assign you to a project, as soon as possible.
2. Hourly Higher pay, but you will never make money if you are not actually assigned to a project.
3. Project Hire A little less than hourly, no bench time, but at least you get some paid holidays and a few sick days.
Thus, bench time is a good thing, but there may be a balancing effect in salary.
HTH, I included all three options to give you an idea of why bench time is offered and how it might affect other parts of your compensation package.
Paul R
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I repeat that according to US law H1-Bs are supposed to be paid the prevailing market wage.
If you are paid $50k a year in Palo Alto,CA you could very well survive only by getting charity food donations. You might have to commute by bus 200 miles a day just to have a place to live. $50k is not the prevailing wage in that neighborhood. If the job pays that and is located there and you turn it down, you are saving yourself from being screwed. If there is someone else who wants the job let them be the suckers.
$50k is a fortune in Mobile, Alabama and would be higher than the prevailing market wage. That would be a good deal. $50k in Boston would be better than CA but still not very much, even with housing, although I would think twice about a job that supplies housing. Employers don't provide housing in the US. They should pay you enough so that you can get your own accomodations.
If it looks like the situation is going to be exploitive, turn it down. A lousy job in the US is not better than a good job in India.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 101
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"Bench time" as it is called is the time between projects esp for consultants getting placed at client's site by their employers. While it is the employer's responsibility to look for new clients and place their employees when their previous project gets over, this process may take a few months. A few years (1 or 2) back, it was possible that the employer could paying an allowance for this bench period. However, you may visit some attorney sites to see if these rules have changed in the recent years.
Ajith, when you say the average is 60K at NC for someone with 2 yrs of exp, are you referring to 2 yrs of Java exp. or 2 yrs of s/w exp. with a knowledge of Java and a Java Programmer certificate? Pardon me if I have understood your post wrong. I want this just for info. purposes.
 
Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff
Posts: 5782
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Two years of Java experience is what I meant, eventhough if you have two years of good programming experience( preferably OO ), companies are ready to hire you and train you in Java. If you demonstrate your ability to learn and adapt to new technologies, many of them are ready to relax their nearly-impossible-to-get work experience requirements
This reminds me of an ad that I saw in a local newspaper in the jobs section. It said "need senior Java programmers/architects with atleast 8 years of Java experience....."
( so much for the "industry knowledge" of the recruiters!! )
Ajith
 
Majid Khan
Ranch Hand
Posts: 92
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What is the prevailing mkt rate and how is it decided? statewise?
And The Q of what is 50k and how much would be the net after
deductions & expenses(food & acc??(depend's on location))??
Can we get some more specific ans???
Would be appreciated in making decisions
I think Paul has has given a lot to ponder about !!!
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know how the government determines the prevailing wage. This might be one of those things that isn't strictly defined in law. However, there is a lot of information on prevailing salaries available.
Michael Finney in another message listed a salary survey page for java:
http://gamelan.earthweb.com/dlink.index-jhtml.72.1082.-.61.jhtml
The most recent survey lists the average java salary for silicon valley at about $93K. The average contract rate there is $97 an hour. The average salary for Boston is listed at $83.5K.
 
Leverager of our synergies
Posts: 10065
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here http://www2.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html is a salary calculator for those who are moving Do not know how accurate it is...
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited October 25, 2000).]
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I checked Mapraputa's salary calculator and it said that $93K in Palo Alto,CA is the same as $50k in Mobile,Alabama, assuming you are a renter. Boy am I good.
[This message has been edited by Oliver Fiktishous (edited October 26, 2000).]
 
Eric Barnhill
Rancher
Posts: 241
Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Incidentally, I think living in Boston on $50 K is perfectly feasible. Not as good as Mobile, no question. But not at all as bad as New York or Silicon Valley. It will be cold though.
 
Author
Posts: 377
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi,
For California, you need a minimum of 80k, more is much better, to survive. 50k is poverty level.
For Colorado (Sun) you can live OK on 50k but you should ask for a little more, I think.

Originally posted by Archana Gupta:
I am from India. And I am looking for a junior java position in the U.S.
From the feedback I am receiving, my initial salary will be around 50K
could anyone tell me, HOW MUCH DOES 50K MEAN after deducting all the expenses of living in the US ie. accomodation, food , travel etc.
(I am especially interested in tbe state of California)


 
Archana Gupta
Greenhorn
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks everyone
I have been immensely helped by all your posts
 
I am not a spy. Definitely. Definitely not a spy. Not me. No way. But this tiny ad ...
Two software engineers solve most of the world's problems in one K&R sized book
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic