Originally posted by Rob Ross
in
http://www.javaranch.com ubb=get topic &f=10&t=001017
If you are really serious about being professional, then I must sadly criticize the Java Ranch logo – the one-eyed moose.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Ask a Meaningful Question and HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch
Getting someone to think and try something out is much more useful than just telling them the answer.
Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
And you are completely unbiased in spite of your relationship with a certain cowgirl who will go nameless.Originally posted by Bert Bates:
In terms of the value of certification, I have to say that I have been a hiring manager for many years. You can always determine how much experience an applicant has, and if I'm comparing two applicants with similar experience levels, a certification definitely makes a difference!
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by G Vanin:
It would have been more advantageous to pass an image of working person, but not trailing after flies or peeping through rotten.com (if there would be much difference for casual observer)
"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
In terms of the value of certification, I have to say that I have been a hiring manager for many years. You can always determine how much experience an applicant has, and if I'm comparing two applicants with similar experience levels, a certification definitely makes a difference!
Originally posted by Guennadiy VANIN:
[...]CV
[...] loose my weight
Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
That seems a bit odd to me. I have never had two resumes where the two candidates were equal and I needed a tie breaker. If it ever did happen I would have both candidates come in for an interview and the interview would decide the issue. I would NEVER reject a candidate because they weren't certified which is what using the certification as a tie-breaker is.Originally posted by Bert Bates:
To clarify, imho experience IS much more important than certification... However, certification is a GREAT tie-breaker.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Co-Author of Head First Design Patterns
Just a Jini girl living in a J2EE world.
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul
And you are completely unbiased in spite of your relationship with a certain cowgirl who will go nameless.
personally, I have never cared about a certification when I was hiring. The only thing that ever mattered was experience.
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
Another nice part of certification is there's no instructor to pay.
... graduation...
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
Certainly the spirited competition that occurs for the high gpa graduates from the elite schools shows what value experience commands in the work place.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I just see a different value in it than many. It was alluded to by another poster previously, but the value in the certification is often for the employers. Companies that contract out their employees like to be able to put on the contract bid that their employees are certified, or to be able to staff contracts that call for certified personnel.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
So certification is valuable because someone else thinks it's valuable? Sounds like a house of cards to me.
Actually a good number of my students are taking the course to prepare for their certification.Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
As a java instructor at the University can you be completely unbiased in your assesment of Java Certification? Another nice part of certification is there's no instructor to pay.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
There is a persistent crowd that disparages the value of certification. Do they - you feel this way about education in general? The point I feel they are trying to make is that the school of hard knocks is the best method for a person to better their skill set. Get a grip...
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally by TP
There are two different things you are talking about... certification and education. One can be educated and not be certified.
Originally posted by Bob Fred:
Your saying you can be certified but not educated?
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Why's that? Things are often measured by their perceived value. Like certification, a college degree is another one of those things. I'd been working in the industry as a developer for some time prior to completing my BS in CS. When I finally graduated I wasn't suddenly a much better developer. However, to others that piece of paper is valuable.
Apparently, yes, because I know of several people who never coded a line of java and still managed to get certified. They studied to pass the certification but they don't know Java.Originally posted by Bob Fred:
Your saying you can be certified but not educated?
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
So my original contention is valid. Educators are competitors with the certification process.
Do you agree Abadula?
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Apparently, yes, because I know of several people who never coded a line of java and still managed to get certified. They studied to pass the certification but they don't know Java.
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
But that should be called 'cheating' and shouldn't be used to undermine the value of certificates. We are talking about the value of certificate for experienced people.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
But that should be called 'cheating' and shouldn't be used to undermine the value of certificates. We are talking about the value of certificate for experienced people.
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
How is it cheating? They studied and took the exam just like anyone else. Where in the certification requirements does it say that you must code x lines of code before taking the test?
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs. |