Advice regarding training/job offer..

[Ranjana Rakesh]

Hi everybody,
I got an offer from a decent consulting company for a training program which pays minimum wages and some bonus. They said they may offer a job at the end of the training which pays around 25K for the first year with benefits.Also, quick promotions were promised.
I have a masters in computer applications from India and around a years experience here in the US..I have been looking out for a job for quite sometime..
Do u think its a good offer and i should go ahead with it.?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
-Ranjana.

[John Coxey]

Ranjana Rakesh:
- Is this company in the USA?
- Do you realize that you are just "surviving" if you are making US$25K/yr in most big cities (especially the east coast - where rent alone can run you US$12K/yr - AFTER TAXES).
- Do you realize that working for a consulting outfit - you will be working 60+ hours/week.?
- Not worth it to me.
John Coxey
([e-mail])

[Ranjana Rakesh]

John,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, the the consulting company is in the US.I agree that I will merely be "surviving" if I make 25k/yr in the US. But I have been an unpaid intern so long and I have been looking for a break to get my first full time job in the US. From that point of view, it kinda makes sense for me to grab on to something to get a foothold and then go from there.
I just want to know what you guys think based on the current market conditions and the uncertainty about future market.
I was wondering if people go thru these small jobs to eventually land in their dream job..
Thanks,
-Ranjana.

[shay Aluko]

Originally posted by Ranjana Rakesh:
John,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, the the consulting company is in the US.I agree that I will merely be "surviving" if I make 25k/yr in the US. But I have been an unpaid intern so long and I have been looking for a break to get my first full time job in the US. From that point of view, it kinda makes sense for me to grab on to something to get a foothold and then go from there.
I just want to know what you guys think based on the current market conditions and the uncertainty about future market.
I was wondering if people go thru these small jobs to eventually land in their dream job..
Thanks,
-Ranjana.

I think, absent any better offers you should go for it and give it six months.You probably need at least 40k/year to live above poverty level especially on the East Coast. After six months just start looking for another job and if you don't have a certification , get one to boost your resume.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by shay Aluko:

I think, absent any better offers you should go for it and give it six months.You probably need at least 40k/year to live above poverty level especially on the East Coast. After six months just start looking for another job and if you don't have a certification , get one to boost your resume.

I agree with all of the above (except getting a certification). I normally don't advise taking a job in good faith if you plan on looking for a new one shortly, but at $25k a year, they get what they deserve.
I remember starting salary for a teacher in NJ (one of the better states in this respect) was $18,500 back in the late 80's--just to give you some perspective. $25k is above the poverty level (except for maybe NYC), but it's not going to be at the level of comfort afforded most software developers.
--Mark

[Derek Grey]

Hello there,
You are classified as "Entry Level"...You like to program...(In this $%$^%^ economy) someone's paying you $25K to do something you like to do...Take it man!!!
Good Luck!!!
-ST

[John Fontana]

My gut feeling tells me to stay away from it. It sounds like a very opportunist sort of a scam...they don't even guarantee that you will get work after you complete the mimum wage training program. (Which are probably real projects the 'school' is getting paid for.)
Perhaps unjustifiably cynical, and maybe it is something not tangible that tells me it is not a good idea.

[shay Aluko]

Originally posted by John Fontana:
My gut feeling tells me to stay away from it. It sounds like a very opportunist sort of a scam...they don't even guarantee that you will get work after you complete the mimum wage training program. (Which are probably real projects the 'school' is getting paid for.)
Perhaps unjustifiably cynical, and maybe it is something not tangible that tells me it is not a good idea.

John might be right, just make sure they don't ask you to pay for training or anything, if they do, then that's a scam.
By the way, great website design john, its very good.

[Ranjana Rakesh]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts.I will give it a shot.
-Ranjana.

[Jamie Robertson]

A good idea is to ask them if this has been done before. Promises are nothing more than fluff, but if they can give you some working examples of other people that have done this, it may give you more confidence in the promise. Also, try to find out as much as you can about this company from employees or prior work they've done. If it is a reputable company,then they are probably a reputable company.

[Tim Holloway]

I enjoy working with computers so much that if $25K were the going rate, I'd work for $25K. However, it isn't, even for people fresh out of school. Ergo, you are most likely dealing with one of the following:
1. A small business where you'd be pretty much the only one doing software. Sometimes you can grow this into a stake into the company and/or position of responsibility and if so, it may be a worthwhile investment. In which case, go for it.
2. A not-so-small business that's simply out to exploit you. They may be taking advantage of the current business climate and/or your race/nationality to get a free ride.
This is dangerous, since no business with ethics like these is can be trusted. If they're willing to exploit you in one way, you may find they also exploit you other ways - like paychecks may start becoming irregular occurrences, bonuses may prove to be imaginary, working conditions may violate health and safety regulations and so forth.
Plus, if you go to work in a shop where there are existing workers and you're being used to put pressure on them, you can end up dealing with some serious resentment issues.
If I had your background and this was the best I could do, I'd do several things.
1. Take the job
2. If you DO find yourself the cause of office discontent, take care not to place yourself in situations where your life, limb, or property is at risk.
3. Keep looking for a more respectable position. Jump as soon as you can. Modern American business has long since forfeited any claim on employee loyalty.
4. Live cheap and invest heavily with an eye towards moving back to India. U.S. investments are often considered to be the world's highest grade, but owning some real property back home is a good idea. Buy it while it's still cheap and you have a relatively good income. That way if worst comes to worst - meaning that the U.S. software industry becomes the same as the U.S TV and VCR industry (i.e. totally extinct) you can go home and live in luxury if you'd rather program than do something that can't be offshored.
And if not, at least it's a pretty safe bet that all your newly-enriched (relatively speaking) compatriots back home will be bidding up the cost of the things they couldn't afford before software development became a major growth industry there. Which in the finest capitalist tradition means that if you already owned this kind of asset - whether its prime real estate or part ownership in the Starbucks next to to Sun's Mumbai campus - you'd be better off than I am at the moment.

[Sam Tilley]

Take the job just to get yourself on the ladder.
Then, i know Mark won't like this but most rational non-cert haters will agree, knuckle down hard and get some good certs under your belt. If you work hard you could have SCJP, SCWCD and SCJD in quick succession, which would limit your spending as you can't go out much and by the end of the year you will have experience, certs and maybe have saved yourself some cash.
Then you show yourself as being committed and hard working and they (or other companies) will be more likely to offer you a better deal. In the current climate i think you need to do whatever just to get into the industry, then you need to stay in.
Just my 2 pennies worth

[Ranjana Rakesh]

Thanks Sam and Tim for your thoughts..I think i'll go for it.
-Ranjana

[jyothi sunke]

Hi Ranjana,
Congrats for getting an offer. If I were you, I would accept the offer. You can start a career with this offer.
By the way, what is that consulting firm?? Is it still recruiting?? I will be glad if you can give me details.
My Email ID � [e-mail]
Good Luck for your future!!

[eric zhao]

I know a firm called setFocus has benn doing this for a long time. Doesn't make much sense for americans, but foreigners, if they can't help you with your status here, why not? It's so much better than paying the tuition for nothing these days.

[jyothi sunke]

But, SetFocus doesn't offer sponsorship. I know about this firm from long time. Does anyone know any other consulting firm hires people after training??

[John Lee]

Full time position 25k per year is not really very well paid. A graduate student RA or TA can earn the about same rate, and get tuition benefit. But considering the current economy, securing a job is not easy in the first place. When you stay employed, you have a better chance to land better opportunity when economy becomes better. So my advice is to take it, for the same reason graduate pursuing graduate study.