How to get programming experience?

[rick collette]

Hi,
I got some phone calls, but all asked about experiences. I told them I am participating in open source projects, but these do not seem to count. I am wondering how I can get experiences, otherwise I will never be able to get into the door. Thanks.

[John Fontana]

Originally posted by rick collette:
Hi,
I got some phone calls, but all asked about experiences. I told them I am participating in open source projects, but these do not seem to count. I am wondering how I can get experiences, otherwise I will never be able to get into the door. Thanks.

Are you good at what you do? If so, then lie. If not, get good at what you do first, then lie.

[Pradip Bhat]

Yes,many companies lie,many managers lie,nothing wrong in putting some extra things (to some extent) on resume for getting the job.

[Tina Desai]

I wonde what are all the ways to get good at what we do..
try outs try outs and try outs?
Tina

[Scott Hajer]

I personally would not advocate lying, since any good company will figure it out once it comes to details. I do think that open source and self-study are viable options for learning.
However, if a job requires 2+ years of experience and you don't have it - these days it will not matter what you've done on your own to get better. The job still requires 2 years of work experience. I think you need to be "best of breed" at your level and you can do that by participating in open source and self-directed projects. Most candidates do not make the effort.
Scott

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by rahul rege:
Yes,many companies lie,many managers lie,nothing wrong in putting some extra things (to some extent) on resume for getting the job.

Many companies do not lie, although a few do.
Manay manager do not lie, although a few do.
There is something very wrong with having to put some extra things on your resumes.
If you do to lie, get out of the industry, because you can't handle it.
Sooner or later the company will find out. You will be fired. You can be sued. And for government jobs, this is a felony.
--Mark

[Tim Holloway]

The sad truth is that you can't win. Without experience you can't get credible experience. If you have experience, they want MORE experience (like the recently posted "Jobs Offered" demanding 7-9 years of Java).
I'd doubtless spend less time unemployed if I did lie. I know more than one on highly-qualified person who lied to get the job and then crammed for the skills. Then again, I recall some who lied to get the job and didn't get the skills. I could pull it off, but refuse to. It keeps me broke, but at least I'm broke with a clean conscience.
What's worked best for me is to know someone who can get me past the HR wall and talking to the people who actually need the skills. This is usually either a headhunter or someone who works there.
It's not easy right now. Headhunters in past were more likely to develop and keep a personal relationshop than they have this time around, and IT people are so darned unsociable that it's hard to just go out and network like sales people do. For one thing, in this town at least, there's no "watering holes" where IT people hang out.

[NetDust OY Jin]

I think lie isn't right,but you can package yourself in some way.

[John Fontana]

This is so hotly debated because there is a gray area here...
What if you have done a hundred independent projects with a particular technology/concept or API, but you have not used it "on the job"? I believe that it is acceptable if you know that you can perform a task, but might not necessarily have the specific "proof" that a headhunter is scanning for...
Let's face it, if you picked up Weblogic quickly, you will pick up Websphere even quicker...Unfortunately the people usually screening resumes have no knowledge of this, so have to dumb it down for them.

[Gary McGath]

People who advise you to lie are dishonest.
Think about that before falling for their advice. Also think about what happens when you're trying to fake your way through a job you can't do.

[Mark Herschberg]

"NetDust OY Jin",
PROPER NAMES ARE NOW REQUIRED
Please look carefully at official naming policy at javaranch & reregister yourself with proper first & last name, with a space between them. Please adhere to official naming policy & help maintain the decorum of the forum. The naming policy can be found at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp
Topics posted by people with invalid names will be closed. Please register with a new name and this topic will be reopened.
Please register with a new name.

--Mark

[aadhi agathi]

Originally posted by rick collette:
Hi,
I told them I am participating in open source projects, but these do not seem to count.

How did you missed out the HelloWorld project
anything anonymous like the open source is very difficult to project. Don't throw stones in the dark ,instead throw in clear light, so that you can break the head of the intended recipient.
Say boldly that you have worked on the "Green Project" but be sure that you byheart these names

Al Frazier, Joe Palrang, Mike Sheridan, Ed Frank, Don Jackson, Faye Baxter, Patrick Naughton, Chris Warth, James Gosling, Bob Weisblatt, David Lavallee, and Jon Payne. Missing in action: Cindy Long, Chuck Clanton, Sheueling Chang, and Craig Forrest.

Dont say something like its the 1st guy, then the 3rd guy as second , the 7th guy as fourth...
Moral of the story: If you believe in yourself , the whole world can't stop you. Otherwise there is always the bubbling question of

"I have finished my degree next month.how can i engineer/architect s/w.

Engineer you mind to know things that are essential. Read, more important, learn the fundamentals (like PRESSMAN). then go and give your shot. Even if there is no firing, initially, the sound will be big.
All the best!
[ April 04, 2003: Message edited by: aadhi agathi ]

[aadhi agathi]

Sorry, i forget to answer the topic question.
1.get a PC
2.Go to google
3.type Sample Project/Project requirement or Project Requirement specification
4.Then ensure that you have the necessary s/w resources and build the s/w
IMHO, unless you do a dummy model you can never build the real one!
start to use the web and gather materials. Read, try, fine-tune, get help, goto read . But decide what you want to program first example: J2EE, Data Modeling etc.
There is no point in saying i want to be an architect without having a web server, J2EE specification from sun, Ed Romans' Mastering EJB and a PC forget app server.
Read the specification first and try to critizie Ed Romand any given topic (without any disrespect). How you as a user/learner of the J2EE specification feel that a concept is not covered clearly/made simpler in the book. start with whare are the 7 roles of an EJB. if you read the Ed Romans first , without the specification you are higly coupled with Ed Romans preachings, which is not official. Start from the basic is the motto for learning/programming.
Once you are clearer with the concepts doing the real thing is a kids play.
All the best to you!!!