-----Mike Dahmus [email protected]
i blog here: carlisia.com
i blog here: carlisia.com
Originally posted by Mike Dahmus:
After reading the last ten or so discussions, I'm ashamed to admit that I've started rooting for Mark Herschberg to be laid off; not because I wish him ill-will; but because his absolute certainty in the cyberlibertarian ideal is so noxiously wrong-headed.
I can't count for you the number of programmers I've talked to over the last ten years who started out with that same philosophy; and at some point realized that in the real world, it's not quite as simple and clean-cut. It's just a coincidence, I suppose, that many of these Young Sure They're Smarter Than Everybody Else Turks come to this sea-change about four months after being laid off in a poor economic climate.
Mark, there are plenty of smart people. If enough jobs are offshored; you will be competing with people just as smart as you for a vanishingly small pool of jobs. Eventually, as it has with every other obnoxiously sure guy I've ever met, you'll become the loser; and what's worse; you'll be out of work for a long time.
The true definition of intelligence, for me at least, is an ability to learn from other peoples' negative experience rather than having to wait for our own negative experience. A five-year-old can learn not to touch the stove after it burns him; but it takes an adult to know not to touch the stove without ever having been burned.
Tony Yan<br /> <br />IBM Certified Developer XML and Related Technology<br />Sun Certified Web Component Developer For J2EE Platform<br />Sun Certified Programmer For Java 2 Platform
After reading the last ten or so discussions, I'm ashamed to admit that I've started rooting for Mark Herschberg to be laid off; not because I wish him ill-will; but because his absolute certainty in the cyberlibertarian ideal is so noxiously wrong-headed.
Michael
SCJP2
Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
i blog here: carlisia.com
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
What you don't see is the enormous capability for work that Mark puts behind his assertions. Say what you will; Mark walks the walk.
-----Mike Dahmus [email protected]
Originally posted by Mike Dahmus:
Try spouting this rhetoric in Silicon Valley or Austin, and you'll find a lot of people who used to talk Mark's talk and walk Mark's walk; but now are walking to the unemployment office and talking a lot more sense.
Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Originally posted by Carlisia Campos:
If person A is smart, person is will adapt and be employed satisfactorily
thus, if person B does not have a job, much less a satisfactorily one, then person B must not be smart.
Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
I can't count for you the number of programmers I've talked to over the last ten years who started out with that same philosophy; and at some point realized that in the real world, it's not quite as simple and clean-cut.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by Natalie Kopple:
.....[/QB]
Commentary From the Sidelines of history
Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Mark Herschberg does not know enough in the field of Economics
MH
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Don't you all have anything better to do than to fixate on one person? If anyone feels they need a focus for any personal failures they may have experienced, I'm fairly certain Mark is not an appropriate target.
Even though it might not jive with your personal experience and you may find it distasteful, has anyone considered for a moment that Mark may be perfectly correct in his views? Just something to think about.
Originally posted by Michael Bronshteyn:
Hey San,
From your previous posts I can understand that you are in India.
Thus, enjoy your good job market and keep in mind that there are certain topics here, which are none of your business.
Cheers.
[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Michael Bronshteyn ]
Originally posted by San Tiruvan:
Hey,
Give him a break !!!....in these times of "Whiners" and "Sobbing people" it's nice to see someone who is confident of his abilities.
Often the most important part of the news is what they didn't tell.
Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
I'm a whining and sobbing person who's confident of my abilities. I'm also confident that I'm a techno-geek and not someone who can sell refrigerators to Eskimoes.
Though the REAL trick there is to sell them an extension cord to go with the refrigerator.![]()
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
I'm a whining and sobbing person who's confident of my abilities. I'm also confident that I'm a techno-geek and not someone who can sell refrigerators to Eskimoes.
Though the REAL trick there is to sell them an extension cord to go with the refrigerator.![]()
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by Coco Lee:
I don't think Mark has ever directly attacked anyone and I think he deserves that respect in return.
The existence of this thread is a personal attack against Mark, which I feel is inappropriate.
-----Mike Dahmus [email protected]
Originally posted by Coco Lee:
The existence of this thread is a personal attack against Mark, which I feel is inappropriate.
Originally posted by Mike Dahmus:
In fact, responding to nearly every thread about employment with some variation of "I am smart and have never had trouble getting a job" and then following it up with "smart people never have trouble finding jobs" is, in case you didn't get it, effectively telling a vast percentage of the audience here that they are not smart.
Now, there's two possibilities.
1. Everybody here except for Mark is dumb.
2. Mark just hasn't learned the lesson yet; that smart people do indeed get laid off; that employers are quite often more like Dilbert's boss than we would like; that macroeconomics does actually matter; etc.
I had to learn this lesson myself; but I learned it before I pissed off too many of my coworkers and friends through that kind of arrogance. I honestly hope Mark takes this to heart and learns it too; and learns it before he's the victim of the job axe; because learning it at the unemployment line is a lot harder on the soul.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
A single sentence can contain good advice, or it can distill a reality -- 'no man is an island", for example. But the reader of one-sentence truths does not escape his own limitations. Such a sentence might add no detail to his understanding of reality. The sentence delights him because it brings together in one economical expression what he already knows....
We make mistakes by overlooking details. We become wiser when we bind details and information together.
Alfred, congratulations on your job. Which guerrilla tactic landed you that one?
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Networking through my JUG
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
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