Bush Said High Unemployment In IT Sector Is Due To Our Outdated Skills

[Natalie Kopple]

CARE Volunteers:
This morning, President Bush made a statement at a press conference
implying that the unemployment in the IT sector is the result of American
workers who have not kept their skills up to date. It is important that we
not allow that statement to go uncorrected. Please take two minutes to
send an e-mail to President Bush telling him that unemployment is not the
result of incompetent American workers, but rather poorly designed
government policies. You can use the IEEE Legislative Action Center at
http://capwiz.com/ieeeusa/home/ to send the message quickly and to get more
information on the Press Conference.
It is vital that these e-mails be send immediately if they are to have any
affect. Also, we will need to generate a significant number of e-mails if
they are to be noticed, so feel free to forward this e-mail to anyone else
who may be interested.
Thank you for your help responding to this situation.
Russell T. Harrison
Legislative Representative - Grassroots Affairs
IEEE-USA
[phone]
[ July 30, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]

[Natalie Kopple]

To contact the White House:
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FAX: [phone]
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or serivce, contact FirstGov.gov.
FirstGov.gov is the official U.S. gateway to all government
information and is a catalyst for a growing electronic government.

[Natalie Kopple]

Sorry, I sent the same message twice.
[ July 30, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]

[Carlisia Campos]

This is what the president said:
THE PRESIDENT: Sure. Listen, I fully understand what you're saying. In other words, as technology races through the economy, a lot of times worker skills don't keep up with technological change. And that's a significant issue that we've got to address in the country. [...]And -- but you're right. I mean, I think we need to make sure that people get the training necessary to keep up with the nature of the jobs, as jobs change.
And this was the question:
Q Thank you, Mr. President. Staying with that theme, although there are some signs of improvement in the economy, there are sectors in the work force who feel like they're being left behind. They're concerned about jobs going overseas, that technology is taking over jobs. And these people are finding difficulty finding work. And although you're recommitted yourself to your tax cut policy, do you have any ideas or any plans within the administration of what you might do for these people who feel like there are fundamental changes happening in the work force and in the economy?

[John Dale]

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030730-1.html picking up with the President finishing his response to a question about the deficit:
My first concern, Dick, was for those folks who couldn't find a job. And I addressed unemployment and addressed economic stagnancy with a tax cut that affected growth -- or the lack of growth -- in a positive way. And I'm optimistic about our economy. But I'm not going to stop working until people can find a job who are looking for work.
Jeanne.
Q Thank you, Mr. President. Staying with that theme, although there are some signs of improvement in the economy, there are sectors in the work force who feel like they're being left behind. They're concerned about jobs going overseas, that technology is taking over jobs. And these people are finding difficulty finding work. And although you're recommitted yourself to your tax cut policy, do you have any ideas or any plans within the administration of what you might do for these people who feel like there are fundamental changes happening in the work force and in the economy?
THE PRESIDENT: Sure. Listen, I fully understand what you're saying. In other words, as technology races through the economy, a lot of times worker skills don't keep up with technological change. And that's a significant issue that we've got to address in the country.
I think my idea of reemployment accounts makes a lot of sense. In essence, it says that you get $3,000 from the federal government to help you with training, day care, transportation, perhaps moving to another city. And if, within a period of time, you're able to find a job, you keep the balance as a reemployment bonus.
I know the community colleges provide a very important role in worker training, worker retraining. I look forward to working with our community colleges through the Department of Education, coordinate closely with states, particularly in those states in which technology is changing the nature of the job force.
I've always found the community college -- and this is from my days as the governor of Texas -- found the community college to be a very appropriate place for job training programs because they're more adaptable, their curriculums are easier to change, they're accessible. Community colleges are all over the place.
And -- but you're right. I mean, I think we need to make sure that people get the training necessary to keep up with the nature of the jobs, as jobs change.

[Tim Holloway]

Ah. Now I understand. I hadn't realized that all that study I've been doing was insufficient training and that I'm merely defective.
Thanks for the heads-up. I was getting my info on our Prexy's speech from FoxNews website (I can't afford the cable channel these days). They didn't headline any of the economic news or the issue about the infamous 16 words. I've been checking on and off all day.
However, they did dedicate a headline to Dubya's statement that they're hot on Saddam's trail.
Where's Geraldo when you need him?

[Al Newman]

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
Ah. Now I understand. I hadn't realized that all that study I've been doing was insufficient training and that I'm merely defective.
Thanks for the heads-up. I was getting my info on our Prexy's speech from FoxNews website (I can't afford the cable channel these days). They didn't headline any of the economic news or the issue about the infamous 16 words. I've been checking on and off all day.
However, they did dedicate a headline to Dubya's statement that they're hot on Saddam's trail.
Where's Geraldo when you need him?

Hmmm, Tim. Where did you get that from? I didn't see him saying that you were out of date. But it happens. It happens to people posting on this board. It happened to me, little as I enjoy admitting that shameful fact.
No way I can judge, but it seems to me that you and I have been in much the same boat lately. Scrambling to get up to date and making a lot of progress. So I doubt you are defective. Unless you contradict me...
I doubt that the Bush retraining program will help all that much, but it is the opposite of the King Log approach his father took 12 years ago. The program might help some people. Better than nothing, so why don't you apply for some free cash?
Seems to me that the root cause of the economic problem is mostly lack of demand and investment. We're investment-sector workers and the investment crash in the telecom and software sectors is the worst of news for us.
Bush is trying to do something about it. This government is running the strongest Keynesian economic policy I have seen as an adult to try and jump-start the economy. The upside of that $400 billion deficit is that the government is putting lots of purchasing power into the hands of the citizenry. It may just blow us out of the recession and into inflation if we're not careful.
I'm a Republican, but I'd be lying to you if I promised it was going to work. But it's got a chance, even a good chance. YMMV.

[Tim Holloway]

Sometimes I get so sarcastic it goes right over people's heads.
:roll:

[stara szkapa]

I don�t understand you people. First you elect president who is not that smart and then you pick on what he says. It is not his fault you elected him, and it is not his fault he is not an intellectual.

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:

I'm a Republican, but I'd be lying to you if I promised it was going to work. But it's got a chance, even a good chance. YMMV.

I thought you were British!!

[Mike Gray]

Originally posted by stara szkapa:
I don�t understand you people. First you elect president who is not that smart and then you pick on what he says. It is not his fault you elected him, and it is not his fault he is not an intellectual.

Not to stir up anymore debate, but Al Gore did win the popular vote. The Supreme Court just fixed the results !
We are also taking advice on education from a guy who had a "gentlemen's C" avergae at Yale, whose vice president flunked out of Yale and whose home state of Texas consistently fell in the bottom five in the US for public education when he was govenor! To give him credit though, I think way he replied to the interviewer implied he was talking about the labor force in general, no IT jobs specifically. I think he was stating that the work force in general is not as skilled, or adept with technology, as we would like to see.

[Billy Tsai]

I wonder how deep is the underground command bunker at THe White House, and do they store any rocket launchers and Stinger missiles in the armory.

[Daniel Almond]

I think there is only one way to have a democratic candidate win the Presidency in 2004. Bill Clinton could win easily... He didn't need any help with his grades because he was a Rhodes scholar.

[Andres Gonzalez]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
I wonder how deep is the underground command bunker at THe White House, and do they store any rocket launchers and Stinger missiles in the armory.

huh?

[Al Newman]

Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

I thought you were British!!

No, Sriraj, I'm a Yank. Living and working in Britain. Soon to get my permanent residentcy permit (cross fingers).....
Then maybe I'll be able to work anywhere in the EU without a work permit. I hope.

[HS Thomas]

Bush is a few inches shorter than Tony Blair. That's probably why he gets fewer column inches than Blair.
I like it how your interviewers are so darned polite.
Here, heckling the Prime Minister on a daily basis is a national past time to keep them focused on what the people ( the customers, the tax-payers) want. :roll:
Wonder what went wrong there ???

[Al Newman]

Originally posted by Mike Gray:

Not to stir up anymore debate, but Al Gore did win the popular vote. The Supreme Court just fixed the results !
We are also taking advice on education from a guy who had a "gentlemen's C" avergae at Yale, whose vice president flunked out of Yale and whose home state of Texas consistently fell in the bottom five in the US for public education when he was govenor! To give him credit though, I think way he replied to the interviewer implied he was talking about the labor force in general, no IT jobs specifically. I think he was stating that the work force in general is not as skilled, or adept with technology, as we would like to see.

Let's not get into that discussion, Mike. Shall we? All manner of courts were issuing all kinds of loaded opinions during that bad time. One could wish that Al Gore possessed the savoir-faire of Grover Cleveland, who won the popular vote by 53% to 47 in 1888 but lost the electoral college to Benjamin Harrison. Cleveland came back in 1892 to win a second term.

[Tim Holloway]

Face it, a quick scan back through the last half-century of American Presidents is all you need to see that neither intelligence nor moral character have much of an impact on the effectiveness or lack thereof of an administration. I personally could do without the Electoral College so that we could actually be a democracy, as I was told we were in school, but what we have, he have, until someone changes it.
Anyway, this is a digression. There were two issues addressed in what I read. Firstly, the issue of sponsored retraining and secondly the issue of offshoring. Retraining programs have been available since the Clinton Administration, and, while I know little in detail about them, there's not been a particular mention of much change overall there since Bush took over. Most of the info I have seen on such things has had to do with outfitting former factory workers with white-collar skills.
However, the second issue mentioned - offshoring - comes into conflict here. Not only does offshoring bring the destruction of domestic jobs, some of those jobs are the very positions that we were retraining people to fill. which means, effectively, that all the tax money spent on those programs is wasted.
Cynic that I am, I've been hard put to see that Bush &Co. do actually understand that there are industries in this country that aren't involved in the extraction, transportation and/or combustion of petroleum, except for e certain enthusiasm for "Enterpeneurs" (sic). What these "Entrepeneurs" are actually supposed to be doing is unclear to me. In that respect, Gore would have been more in tune with the "Information Society". After all, he invented the Internet.
Because the Bush administration is rather lopsided with oil industry expertise, they do need to hear the voices of those of us in other industries. The IEEE site mentioned at the top of this thread is a good way to be heard. Unlike a lot of protest sites, they're not hoping to recruit you to join a labor union - the IEEE is a top-grade professional organization. The sooner we're heard, the sooner we can get working on a solution.
[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: Tim Holloway ]

[HS Thomas]

Face it, a quick scan back through the last half-century of American Presidents is all you need to see that neither intelligence nor moral character have much of an impact on the effectiveness or lack thereof of an administration.

Perhaps the measure of the man for the role should be the height? Cue, Al Gore .
For an advanced culture how is it that you've never had a woman President?
If Wayward Willy is the best President many of you can remember, think of the possibilities of Hilary Clinton as President.
Anyone know what she has to say on unemployment and off-shoring jobs ?
Bit more handbag and bouffant, Hilary gal! ( Reminiscient of Maggie, she'd have had none of this .)
regards
[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Daniel Almond]

Retraining programs do work. I am personally experiencing the first one right now. The GI Bill combined with other government programs actually allows me to go to school and not starve without paying too much out of my own pocket. $3000 is not even close to the amount someone would need to start this kind of retraining though. Even making it on $9000 a year is tough while paying tuition. No one can protect jobs as the global market becomes more prevalent and doing so would isolate the US even more than we are now and more people would hate us. The job of workers in the US is to innovate and stay ahead of the game. Plus the Army is always hiring so anyone who gets tired of the rat race can have their chance to Be All They Can Be! hehehehe

[Al Newman]

Originally posted by HS Thomas:

Perhaps the measure of the man for the role should be the height? Cue, Al Gore .
For an advanced culture how is it that you've never had a woman President?
If Wayward Willy is the best President many of you can remember, think of the possibilities of Hilary Clinton as President.
Anyone know what she has to say on unemployment and off-shoring jobs ?
Bit more handbag and bouffant, Hilary gal! ( Reminiscient of Maggie, she'd have had none of this .)
regards

In this profession, HS? Many of us are so young that Clinton is the only president they can remember!
Females occupying the top job have been a relative rarity. Few even come close. Thatcher, Benazir Bhutto, and Indira Ghandi are the ones which come to mind. Norway had a powerful and long-lasting woman premier, I think. And the Christian Democrats in Germany may nominate one for the next election (she is one of the top two contenders I think). Mary Robinson was President of Ireland I believe, but that is a ceremonial head of state job somewhat like an elected Queen of England. I think. I don't think she was ever Taioseach (PM). Canada isn't even close. Neither are France, Italy, Spain, Greece, Austria, etc.

[HS Thomas]

That's more than I remembered , Alfred.
Here is a near complete list (46 Women Presidents or Prime Ministers of the 20th Century).

Sirimavo Bandaranaike, Sri Lanka
Prime Minister, 1960-1965, 1970-1977, 1994-2000.
Indira Gandhi, India
Prime Minister, 1966-77, 1980-1984.
Golda Meir, Israel
Prime Minister, 1969-1974.
Isabel Peron, Argentina
President, 1974-1976
Elisabeth Domitien, Central African Republic
Prime Minister, 1975-1976
Margaret Thatcher, Great Britain
Prime Minister, 1979-1990.
Maria da Lourdes Pintasilgo, Portugal
Prime Minister, 1979-1980.
Lidia Gueiler Tejada, Bolivia
Prime Minister, 1979-1980.
Dame Eugenia Charles, Dominica
Prime Minister, 1980-1995.
Vigd�s Finnbogad�tt�r, Iceland
President, 1980-96.
Gro Harlem Brundtland, Norway
Prime Minister, 1981, 1986-1989, 1990-1996.
Soong Ching-Ling, Peoples' Republic of China
Honorary President, 1981.
Milka Planinc, Yugoslavia
Federal Prime Minister, 1982-1986.
Agatha Barbara, Malta
President, 1982-1987.
Maria Liberia-Peters, Netherlands Antilles
Prime Minister, 1984-1986, 1988-1993.
Corazon Aquino, Philippines
President, 1986-92.
Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan
Prime Minister, 1988-1990, 1993-1996.
Kazimiera Danuta Prunskiena, Lithuania
Prime Minister, 1990-91.
Violeta Barrios de Chamorro, Nicaragua
Prime Minister, 1990-1996.
Mary Robinson, Ireland
President, 1990-1997.
Ertha Pascal Trouillot, Haiti
Interim President, 1990-1991.
Sabine Bergmann-Pohl, German Democratic Republic
President, 1990.
Aung San Suu Kyi, Myanmar (Burma)
Her party won 80% of the seats in a democratic election in 1990, but the military government refused to recognize the results. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1991.
Khaleda Zia, Bangladesh
Prime Minister, 1991-1996.
Edith Cresson, France
Prime Minister, 1991-1992.
Hanna Suchocka, Poland
Prime Minister, 1992-1993.
Kim Campbell, Canada
Prime Minister, 1993.
Sylvie Kinigi, Burundi
Prime Minister, 1993-1994.
Agathe Uwilingiyimana, Rwanda
Prime Minister, 1993-1994.
Susanne Camelia-Romer, Netherlands Antilles
Prime Minister, 1993, 1998-
Tansu �iller, Turkey
Prime Minister, 1993-1995.
Chandrika Bandaranaike Kumaratunge, Sri Lanka
Prime Minister, 1994, President, 1994-
Reneta Indzhova, Bulgaria, Interim Prime Minister, 1994-1995.
Claudette Werleigh, Haiti
Prime Minister, 1995-1996.
Sheikh Hasina Wajed, Bangladesh
Prime Minister, 1996-.
Mary McAleese, Ireland
President, 1997-.
Pamela Gordon, Bermuda
Prime Minister, 1997-1998.
Janet Jagan, Guyana
Prime Minister, 1997, President, 1997-1999.
Jenny Shipley, New Zealand
Prime Minister, 1997-1999.
Ruth Dreifuss, Switzerland
President, 1999-2000.
Jennifer Smith, Bermuda
Prime Minister, 1998-.
Nyam-Osoriyn Tuyaa, Mongolia, Acting Prime Minister, July 1999.
Helen Clark, New Zealand
Prime Minister, 1999-.
Mireya Elisa Moscoso de Arias, Panama
President, 1999-.
Vaira Vike-Freiberga, Latvia
President, 1999-.
Tarja Kaarina Halonen, Finland
President, 2000-.
I've included Tarja Kaarina Halonen because, by most reckonings, the year 2000 is actually part of the 20th century. (The year "0" didn't exist, so a century starts with the year "1" - or so the logic goes.) As the 21st century arrived, yet another was added: Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo - President of the Philippines, sworn in on January 20, 2001. Mame Madior Boye became Prime Minister in Senegal in March of 2001. Megawati Sukarnoputri, daughter of founding head of state Sukarno, was selected as Indonesia's fifth president in 2001 after losing in 1999. We can only hope that many others will be on a list of Women Presidents and Prime Ministers for the 21st century. I've limited this list, however, to the history of women heads of state for the 20th century, and will not add anyone who took office after 2001.

regards
[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Frank Silbermann]

The question Bush was asked was: . "...They're concerned about jobs going overseas, that technology is taking over jobs. And these people are finding difficulty finding work....
Does "people who are afraid that technology is taking over their jobs" refer to Java developers? I don't think so. It sounds to me that the question was about the anxieties of "old-economy" workers, and in that context Bush's answer made perfect sense. It's too bad no one followed his response with a question about unemployed high-tech workers (maybe next time).
But by pretending Bush gave an insulting and out-of-touch answer to a question different from the one was asked, rancher Natalie Kopple engaged in demogogic rabble-rousing and slander against the President, IMO.
Speculative bubbles are always followed by crashes, and that speculative bubble occured during Bill Clinton's watch. Imagine! Complanies being formed with a business plan like: "(1) Hire overpriced workers, (2) create product with glamourous name, (3) IPO, (4) cash out our stock" -- without even a thought of whether the company would make a profit !!!
If the Democrats were in power right now, the only difference is that you'd be paying higher taxes from your salary, and your employer would be paying higher taxes for the priviledge of employing you. Does that sound like a solution?
And instead of using the money to kill terrorists, we'd be spending it on more Berkeley commie sociologists to write more reports about how socialism is needed to help poor people.

[George Lawniczak]

Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:

Speculative bubbles are always followed by crashes, and that speculative bubble occured during Bill Clinton's watch. Imagine! Complanies being formed with a business plan like: "(1) Hire overpriced workers, (2) create product with glamourous name, (3) IPO, (4) cash out our stock" -- without even a thought of whether the company would make a profit !!!

The business plan more resembled that of the Underpants Gnomes from South Park:
Step 1: Collect underpants
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!

[Derek Grey]

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
Ah. Now I understand. I hadn't realized that all that study I've been doing was insufficient training and that I'm merely defective.
Thanks for the heads-up. I was getting my info on our Prexy's speech from FoxNews website (I can't afford the cable channel these days). They didn't headline any of the economic news or the issue about the infamous 16 words. I've been checking on and off all day.
However, they did dedicate a headline to Dubya's statement that they're hot on Saddam's trail.
Where's Geraldo when you need him?

I've always wanted to ask this question...Does FoxNews support the Republicans/Bush??? (I've heard Jay Leno cutting jokes many times but was not sure if it was for real.) and Does any other news network do the same to the Democrats??

[Derek Grey]

We are also taking advice on education from a guy who had a "gentlemen's C" avergae at Yale, whose vice president flunked out of Yale and whose home state of Texas consistently fell in the bottom five in the US for public education when he was govenor!

....now that's some news

[Todd Killingsworth]

I've always wanted to ask this question...Does FoxNews support the Republicans/Bush???

No more than AOL TimeWarner supports anti-Bush/Democrats, but they seem to be more subtle about it than FOX. You can look at it by the stories that Fox leads with vs. CNN's lead stories.
Likewise, fluff pieces for CNN and Time have been France-positive and concilliatory. Doubt you'll see that on FOX.
Todd Killingsworth
[ August 01, 2003: Message edited by: Todd Killingsworth ]

[Frank Silbermann]

San Tiruvan: Does FoxNews support the Republicans/Bush??? (and Does any other news network do the same to the Democrats??
All of the others do the same for the Democrats, but a little more artfully. See Bernard Goldberg's book: Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News.

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Carlisia Campos:
This is what the president said:
THE PRESIDENT: Sure. Listen, I fully understand what you're saying. In other words, as technology races through the economy, a lot of times worker skills don't keep up with technological change. And that's a significant issue that we've got to address in the country. [...]And -- but you're right. I mean, I think we need to make sure that people get the training necessary to keep up with the nature of the jobs, as jobs change.
And this was the question:
Q Thank you, Mr. President. Staying with that theme, although there are some signs of improvement in the economy, there are sectors in the work force who feel like they're being left behind. They're concerned about jobs going overseas, that technology is taking over jobs. And these people are finding difficulty finding work. And although you're recommitted yourself to your tax cut policy, do you have any ideas or any plans within the administration of what you might do for these people who feel like there are fundamental changes happening in the work force and in the economy?

(italics added for emphasis)
I wasn't concerned about the "technology is taking over jobs" part until this morning when I read an article on a newly-developed automated burger flipper that MacDonald's is testing. What next, an automated Wal-Mart greeter? I'm running out of jobs to retrain to after the last of the software jobs goes overseas!
Hmmm. Here's a Brave New world for you: Imagine going to a store where there are no people at all (except of course, for the minimum-wage security guards that search your packages 3 times on the way out the door - which is why I destroyed my Sam's card, BTW). Instead, the entire building is one big vending machine. Containerized freight units roll around back. The vending hardware is built into them so that it can be assembled and maintained by low-wage employees in China before being lifted onto the boat. The only U.S employees involved are the security guards, the truck drivers and whoever comes out from the regional office to check on things periodically.
Think of all the cost savings!
Don't laugh. I saw perfectly good quality carpets and ceilings get ripped out of a store when Sam's Club took over the building just so people could "See how much money is being saved by not having expensive lighting and fixtures". I am mightily resisting local supermarkets which are trying to force me to do my own checkout operations so they can cashier their cashiers even now.
On fair and balanced reporting: I don't expect reporters not to have an agenda. However, if I hear a slanted story, I can (and do) cross-check it. If the story is flat-out suppressed, I may never know the issue existed at all.
[ August 01, 2003: Message edited by: Tim Holloway ]

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
Retraining programs do work. I am personally experiencing the first one right now. The GI Bill combined with other government programs actually allows me to go to school and not starve without paying too much out of my own pocket. $3000 is not even close to the amount someone would need to start this kind of retraining though. Even making it on $9000 a year is tough while paying tuition. No one can protect jobs as the global market becomes more prevalent and doing so would isolate the US even more than we are now and more people would hate us. The job of workers in the US is to innovate and stay ahead of the game. Plus the Army is always hiring so anyone who gets tired of the rat race can have their chance to Be All They Can Be! hehehehe

The GI Bill is largely credited with creating much of the subsequent propsperity of the latter 20th Century. Up until that point, going to college mostly meant having been born in a wealthy enough family.
Lessee: $9000 a year is about Rs. 4 lakh. Considered quite a decent salary in India. So when you innovate a new job that can get me where I don't have to compete on raw price, please let me know. Please don't give the the tired old spiel about hiring Indians to work for me. First, that's what no few of the displaced H1-Bs are doing, and they have the advantage of being able to tap friends and relatives back home as opposed to putting a blind ad out on the Internet and hoping you can catch someone. They also know how to do business in India, and I, for one, don't. Second, India does have a large population, but it's still only 3 times that of the US. Not nearly big enough for every displaced programmer in the US to cost-effectively manage his/her own private cadre of Indian programmers. Third, if I actually had people skills, I'd be a displaced manager, not a displaced software designer.
If you think you can escape unemployment by joining the military, you're living in the '60s. In the days of the All-Volunteer Army, they're rather picky who they let in anymore.
And, of course, they quite legally discriminate based on age.