i blog here: carlisia.com
Experience keeps a dear School, but Fools will learn in no other.
---
Benjamin Franklin - Postal official and Weather observer
Originally posted by John Dale:
Most books I've seen that introduce Java programming either tell you where to download the Java SDK, or include it on a CD-ROM. I'm pretty sure that's true of Deitel & Deitel, at least for the edition I glanced at. If it wasn't true of the edition you used (which would surprise me), and the portion of the book the class covered used features not provided by the school, then it would seem the instructor failed you if she didn't tell you where to get what you needed for the course.
Originally posted by Svetlana Koshkina:
She covered 2-3 chapters per lesson all from different part of the book (covered jdk 1.2). Many of us were so unexperienced like me that we skipped on introductory part of the book trying to catch up with other chapters. Moreover she explicitly said that she encourages only lab work (java 1.1 only) or work from home but connected to the uni's server (java 1.1 only). Of course now when i have experience first thing i'd do i'd go on language's website but not then - too green. Many people don't understand this.
Moreover if i were a bit more experienced then i'd never pay $500 for learning bloody html!!!
The only benefit from those classes for me was that it got me caught in whole this switch-to-parogramming thing of mine while having been of minimum usability study-wise.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Carlisia Campos:
It downed on me during the latest discussions here that this is a society where the majority would rather keep increasing government spending on the military rather than provide higher education for its citizens. This way, a very large portion of the population cannot afford to go to college.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
It was never clear to me that society is better off sending more people to colleges--not indefinately anyway. There's no doubt that sending only, say 5% of the citizens is not enough. Sending 90% is too much.
Think of the typical liberal arts education, something like art history. The belief is that a broad education develop all sorts of skills. Maybe its useful, maybe not. But I meet so many people who pend $60-80k on college and end up managing a Gap or some similar fate.
America is often criticzed for having a poor educational system, but in fact, we have over educated, or rather, mis-educated people. College has become a middle class entitlement. Rather, we should promote 1-4 year vocational schools, which are more practical and lower cost.
--Mark
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
The problem with that argument is that it paints higher education as being valuable only in how much a person can earn, or what job occupation they can perform, after graduating. This misses much of the benefits and value of a liberal arts education.
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
The problem with the vocational training model, IMHO, is that it trains a person to do one thing well, and thats it. It is in many ways like getting certifications. The vendor certifications only state one's knowledge of that platform, not of the field in general. a C# cert says that you know the syntax, and can build applications in C#. It says nothing regarding your ability to learn new langauges, or other (non-programming) aspects of IT.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I don't necessarily dismiss the benefits of the liberal arts education (my jury is still out on it). Rather, I claim that it's misused. If getting a liberal art education results in a negative bottom line on your lifetime financial picture, then it should not be undertaken (unless you inherently value learning--many people don't).
--Mark
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I agree that this is the current case, but it does not have to be so. Right now they have vocational schools for things like automotive repair and culinary arts. They tend to be very narrow. There's no reason we can broaden that. A mechanic who wants to run his own shop needs to know not only mechanics, but also finance, hiring, marketing, some basic management etc. It starts to get very liberal, just with a specific goal in mind, rather then "this is broad background for *anything*."
--Mark
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
Keep in mind that the factors involved in such a decision are not only "What will make me the most money over my lifetime?". They are also things such as "Which major will be more enjoyable and fulfilling for me for the next four years" and "What type of career will be the most fulfilling and enjoyable over my lifetime".
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I should have been clearer, working at HBS I'm surrounded by economists, and when speaking to economists, enjoyment is implied in cost, i.e. I'm willing to make $1,000 less a year if I like my job twice a smuch.
So yes, I do consider that a factor. Nevertheless, I still think many people make bad decisions. Consider, for example, law school. Most people who go into law school have aspirations of trial law, or doing some public good. Most people who actually graduate law school go into corporate law. It's not what they wanted initially, but the financial lure is very strong, especially with such large debt. Now these are people who have been considering this profession for years, and yet they still find themselves ended up far off course from where they began. Undergraduates tend to be even more misdirected. Most engineering students, for example, don't really understand what engineering jobs are like, by the time they declare their major. I think most people woefully misjudge their choosen profession and projected career path.
As for finance, again I think people do not know the difference. Of course everyone knows engineers make more then teachers. What they don't know is how much things cost. Students aren't just to balancing a morgage, children's expenses, vacations, grocery bills, loan payments, etc. most people don't appreciate just how great the difference in expected lifetime earnings are between different professions.
Now with respect to "a mechanic's education" I agree and disagree. You're right that most won't own their own shops, and so obviously, it would be foolish for them to inucr the learning costs for how to run one. Continuing education classes can provide that later in a career. On the other hand, knowing some basics will amke them work better. This is, in some sense the premise of my book. A software engineer may never be a project manager, so he shouldn't have to learn about project management. And yet, his boss will ask him for schedules and tools recommendations; he may be shifted between projects as the PM consideres staffing issues. There are many issues which will effect the engineer and he will have to give input on decisions. having some exposure to PM issues will allow the engineer to work better in this environment.
--Mark
[ August 06, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ]
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams