IT jobs in UK (god someone cheer me up pls)

[John Summers]

Hello all,
I am a few days away from SCJP and increasingly wondering why I'm bothering not just with SCJP but with my IT career.
Outsourcing is gathering pace in the UK, especially in IT. The UK will be hit the worst out of Europe cos the Indians/Chinese/Everyone speaks English rather than the other Western languages.
What I see from a potential programming career is basically EXTREMELY intellectually demanding work, CONSTANT need to upgrade skills by studying in spare time, and for what? Why should I pursue this path if there will be no IT jobs in 5 years? Or rather there will be some IT jobs but there will be huge numbers of people competing for them thus the salary will plummet.
I mean, I'm 28 now. I don't want to kill myself to get loads of good development experience to be earning �20k per annum in 10 years. (which for the non-uk people, is not a good salary). Unfortunately at the minute I have little choice. To think, I used to work in Human Resources, a discipline utterly devoid of skill or purpose but full of money. In the lonely, dark hours of the night I think about going back.......
aaggghhh
i'm so depressed
sorry
john

[Matt Cao]

Hi,
Why not? You probably could do a better technical recruiter than most HR. Curiously, did you have any strategy when you switching field of discipline?
Regards,
MCao

[John Summers]

I did work in HR related jobs for 2 years in London. I really felt that the whole discipline was full of people who's ambition far outweighed their IQ. They did very little of worth, just mainly bureaucrats and power hungry people.
I started to get really interested in PCs and programming. Started designing websites, started writing Applets. Realised that my true vocation in life is computer programming. I had never realised this before because I never got to use a PC properly till 3 years ago. When I was at school they didnt teach IT at all.
So I left HR and did a one year MSc conversion course at Newcastle University in the Uk. I am passionate about programming. I really can say I enjoy doing it. That's the point of my post really, I have found what I love doing in life but am worried about the future of said discipline.
Yeah I could do IT recruitment, but if the IT jobs go then so will the IT recruitment jobs! (good, i hate recruitment consultants, the scum).
john

[HS Thomas]

Seems to me you have the best of both worlds.
You could use your contacts in IT recruitment
1: to find work
2: to build a team of programmers
Companies like to have strength in numbers and that way you (and your team) get to the top of the pile.
Start with getting yourself hired first, then another programmer.
You'll need to learn extra skills other than programming. And not all jobs will be off-shored. Especially if they have a visible team who
can do the job.
Just an idea!
regards
[ October 22, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[HS Thomas]

P.S. Hope you wrote a nice letter of resignation before you quit!
Seriously, go for anything and don't worry about too far into the future.
Worry about the present.
regards

[Matt Cao]

Originally posted by John Summers:
I did work in HR related jobs for 2 years in London. I really felt that the whole discipline was full of people who's ambition far outweighed their IQ. They did very little of worth, just mainly bureaucrats and power hungry people.
I started to get really interested in PCs and programming. Started designing websites, started writing Applets. Realised that my true vocation in life is computer programming. I had never realised this before because I never got to use a PC properly till 3 years ago. When I was at school they didnt teach IT at all.
So I left HR and did a one year MSc conversion course at Newcastle University in the Uk. I am passionate about programming. I really can say I enjoy doing it. That's the point of my post really, I have found what I love doing in life but am worried about the future of said discipline.
Yeah I could do IT recruitment, but if the IT jobs go then so will the IT recruitment jobs! (good, i hate recruitment consultants, the scum).
john

Hi John,
"Control, control." I try to immitate Yoda from Star Wars.
This is one possibility. Join the consulting firm but align yourself in the account executive/manager position, in that way go to the client sites as part of your job duties. Utilize your technologies knowledge when converse with your clients. If you see one that compatible with you or the chemistry mesh well, try to obtain the job for yourself instead. I know couple female with your similar background land the jobs that way. Once you work with the company, gain some experiences, and you soon discover its niche markets. The nich market is the one help some of us paid the bills currently.
Regards,
MCao

[John Summers]

thanks for all your kind advice.
yes, at present I cannot think "will i have a job in 5 years", i will never get anywhere like that. i need to focus. first off, i need a job (currently unemployed) to pay off debts and get some cash.
i think the world always looks less bleak when you are working. Matt, yes I had been thinking things like your advice. Mabye get in as a programmer, then start exploring other areas I could move into: niche areas, project management, the finance side of things.
must focus, SCJP first!
j

[SJ Adnams]

Hope you wrote a nice letter of resignation before you quit

Getting back onto that subject, many firms actually disallow your manager giving you a reference. The reference will come from HR & simply state the start & finish dates, your role & salary. (yes your salary - so don't think you can get away telling porkies).
Well at least that was the case with my last 2 shops.

[HS Thomas]

many firms actually disallow your manager giving you a reference

More often than not I get asked for my manager's phone and number. I find written references even if available are ignored. That is why I write nice letters/e-mails of resignation (which can be forwarded and I take a copy) and buy everyone a beer (or two if I am pushed).

Resigning can be an emotional thing especially if you have been there a while.
There was a case where a female co-worker not only felt she had to resign from the job but herself mentally. So we all got e-mails detailing her future life plans to the very last detail. I mean even down to starting a family etc. That was embarrassing for all.She left for a very high-flying job in the City. Perhaps she wanted to rub it in.
It takes all sorts. She was treated much better while working her weeks of notice than she was in the 5 years that she was there.
BTW I wouldn't recommend a resignation of this sort - an emotional drama.
regards
[ October 23, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[John Summers]

my god!
I've just been offered a job. Talk about sod's law. I am on the verge of quitting and I finally get a job. I start in a week.
It is my dream job:
jsp/serlvet, ejb, xml.
on a good salary.
cheers
john

[SJ Adnams]

[Matt Cao]

[HS Thomas]

Congratulations, John.

[John Summers]

I'm still in a state of shock. I have basically been job hunting for 12 months.
Just months before I started my MSc IT jobs were in $abundance$. I started my MSc in September 2001. September the 14th. 3 days after a pretty awful event which sent the world into recession.
its pretty amazingly bad luck to start a new career 3 days into a world recession.... anyway, I graduated a year later. I did have one awful job but essentially have been job hunting for 12 months.. Before I went into my MSc most IT graduates were walking into good jobs without any experience and on loads of money, so I never in my worst nightmares expected the situation to be this bad.
However, finally, I have got my break. Thus you will see why I'm still a bit stunned.
take care
john