This week's book giveaway is in the Open Source Projects forum.
We're giving away four copies of Spark in Action and have Jean-Georges Perrin on-line!
See this thread for details.
Win a copy of Spark in Action this week in the Open Source Projects forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • fred rosenberger
  • salvin francis
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown

Ignorance underpins Indian outsourcing fears

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
IT Management: Outsourcing

by Jack Schofield

Tuesday 28 October 2003

Ignorance underpins Indian outsourcing fears

There has been a curious kerfuffle about "outsourcing" this year, as though it was something new. You might even imagine that the economic arguments that saw the massive reduction in UK jobs in, for example, the textile and shipbuilding industries somehow did not apply to white-collar work.
But the exploitation of Indian programming talent certainly is not new to the UK computer industry. I first discussed it 20 years ago, in the context of Tata Burroughs, which was founded in 1977. This became Tata Unisys, and then Tata Infotech. The Tata Group is now India's biggest computer company, and Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) turns over $1bn a year.
I find it somewhat amusing to hear IT managers express reservations about dealing with companies like this. TCS has development centres in the US, Australia, China, Hungary, Japan and other places besides India. It is a useful reminder that an Indian IT company can be bigger, older, and more international than the one you happen to work for. Not to mention cheaper.
The Americans are also worried about losing IT jobs to India. Indeed, Ed Yourdon, developer of the Yourdon Method of structured system design, sounded a warning in 1992 in his book, The Decline & Fall of the American Programmer. (In retrospect, it is amusing to see Yourdon describe TCS as "only a $30m operation".)
Intel chairman Andy Grove took up the theme at the Business Software Alliance's Global Technology Summit in Washington DC this month. He warned that software would go the way of steel unless the government acted. If Indian government predictions were right, India would overtake the US in software and services in 2010, said Grove.
But Greg Bentley, from Bentley Systems, said, "Let's not think of it as outsourcing: globalisation is the only thing that works for us and our industry. The issue is protectionism."
Filemaker's president Dominique Goupil took a similar line. "It is not just a job issue, it is a free trade issue. We need to be free traders."
The fact is that many IT companies, including Intel, invest in India because they can get things done there that it would be unprofitable to do in the US or Europe. But US software companies also know that most of their revenues come from overseas and, in the long term, India will be a huge market.
As for call centres, I see them as a failure of innovation. Most could be replaced by intelligent voice-response software. Until they are, I would rather have the phone answered in Bangalore than navigate through 19 stupid menus with a touch-tone phone.
Jack Schofield is computer editor of the Guardian

To be competitive be innovative !

regards
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1907
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
{
Indeed, Ed Yourdon, developer of the Yourdon Method of structured system design, sounded a warning in 1992 in his book, The Decline & Fall of the American Programmer. (In retrospect, it is amusing to see Yourdon describe TCS as "only a $30m operation".)
}
This is little bit dated but excellent book to read and recently finished this.!Many of the predictions which Yourdon said in this book became true.Like imergence of internet,C++ as mainstream business language etc. Wipro is in last row,Some American IT companies top at that time are not there now.Author has emphasized CASE tool alot.The whole chapter on "Software Development in India" is devoted for these kind of issues.Finally author agrees to return to India only when 'bloody telephones get right'
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've seen this ignorance in action, too. I used to work for a manufacturing Company that started with sites in Germany. And why not! they were the best at it at the time. English management was considered to be of better quality so overall management was conducted on these shores. Fifty years later when I started working with them ,it was still amazing to see the low-level ignorance even though by then manufacturing plants started to open up and be run successfully on these shores and German management improved vastly beyond the English management.
Guess what, it was an American Company . Shared anti-American sentiments on both sides fueled the process. I didn't know it then but I do now, on reflection. Culture bashing depending on who wasn't present was a past-time. Quite embarassing really.Culture and politics is a wonderful thing.
Competition never hurts in the long run. Lack of social development, terrorism does.
Otherwise, nothing changes , really.
regards
[ November 10, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 435
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In my last company TCS would change tests when they failed, just to make them pass. In the end they had their contract terminated. Bunch of cowboys, this was 5 years ago. But they did give everyone little wooden elephants when they left.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1209
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tony Collins:
In my last company TCS would change tests when they failed, just to make them pass. In the end they had their contract terminated. Bunch of cowboys, this was 5 years ago. But they did give everyone little wooden elephants when they left.


Are you trying to say that a EDS/Accenture/IBM Global Services *never* screw up?
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Probably , that when they screw up they don't give away little wooden elephants. They would have left white elephants behind them.
regards
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
From an article :

IBM did some justifiable crowing recently when official government tallies confirmed that for the 10th consecutive year, it had garnered more U.S. patents than any other company on the planet, adding 3,288 patents to its collection in 2002. IBM says its massive patent portfolio has generated roughly $10 billion in licensing revenues over the past decade.
The numbers are impressive, but even more noteworthy is IBM�s open licensing policy: Big Blue makes nonexclusive licensing deals with just about anyone willing to pay for access to its technology. The strategy has served the company well over the years. IBM won big, for instance, when it nonexclusively licensed its seminal patents on the personal computer and PC �clones� flooded the marketplace. Such PC powerhouses as Dell, Gateway, and Compaq�to name a few licensees�owe their very existence to this policy. And IBM has enjoyed a healthy stream of licensing revenues.
But let�s compare Big Blue�s record to that of another esteemed U.S. engine of innovation�one we might call Big Ivory.
I�m talking, of course, about the U.S. universities and nonprofit research institutions that make up the proverbial ivory tower.



Did I say innovate ? I should have said Patent, Patent, Patent.
IBM doesn't necessarily come up with good ideas, it patents them
regards
 
Fire me boy! Cool, soothing, shameless self promotion:
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic