Win a copy of Five Lines of Code this week in the OO, Patterns, UML and Refactoring forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • fred rosenberger
  • salvin francis
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown

Age Discrimination ?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 435
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This week I didn't get an offer from an interview again. I feel due to age discrimination. As I previously worked in Telecoms, I seem to have to start at the bottom in different sectors(25k).
At the last interview I got 15 out of 15( highest of the group) on the test and sucessfully wrote some C up on their white board. Everything seemed fine and the interview went well. My fear is that they didn't want to offer me a job because I had too much experience, but I can't get a interview as mid/senior engineer in non-telecoms sectors as I haven't enough experience.
Anyone else had a similar problem.
Tony
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are many 34 year olds working in these sectors. I have worked with a 26 year old , though highly technically skilled ,who would have made my grandfather look young.You are as old as you feel.
I've previously looked down(up?) on 40-45 yr olds with fewer technical skills as being too old to learn ,but didn't they come into their own once the going got tough !
I think you just have to treat each interview as a possible niche for you and make sure you convince them it's yours. If there is age discrimination , that's stupid and a waste of resources.
Having said that the 40-45 year olds weren't doing entry-level jobs.
By 34 you should be able to design and code I feel. By 40-45 one should be able to manage a small team. Though not everyone will be doing the actual managing they should be able to lend support in that area.
[ January 06, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tony Collins:
This week I didn't get an offer from an interview again. I feel due to age discrimination. As I previously worked in Telecoms, I seem to have to start at the bottom in different sectors(25k).
At the last interview I got 15 out of 15( highest of the group) on the test and sucessfully wrote some C up on their white board. Everything seemed fine and the interview went well. My fear is that they didn't want to offer me a job because I had too much experience, but I can't get a interview as mid/senior engineer in non-telecoms sectors as I haven't enough experience.
Anyone else had a similar problem.
Tony


Tony, I'd hesitate to ascribe it entirely to age discrimination. I'm more than a decade older than you are and had a hard time after my last layoff (8 months out). I'm also ex-telecoms and faced the same difficult situation as you did. But last summer I landed a job with a 'young' consultantcy which specializes in the finance area. Albeit as a mere 'consultant' (instead of a senior) and at a big whack in pay. But a lot higher than the range you are looking at.
If you are looking at 25K jobs you may be looking too low. They may not feel that you will stay long at that wage.
Or you may not be generating enough leads. It took me at least 20 interviews over 8 months time to land my final success (I landed 2 others which fell through because of finances and war, respectively). I thought I had it on at least 5 others, but nope. It's simply very hard, very competitive out there right now. It's very likely that they are getting 3 or 4 very good applicants for each opening and more or less choosing randomly. Which means that if you keep generating leads and doing interviews you will hit sooner or later.
One thing you cannot afford is too much depression. I limited myself to a couple hours each time. I'd go and have a 2 hour nap and then shake it off and answer more ads or study for my certification or something.
[ January 06, 2004: Message edited by: Bela Bardak ]
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes, listen to Bela. Aim higher and age won't be that much of a problem.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1551
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've worked for a number of big name companies. Very early I noticed the new techinal people were almost always <30. I thought it was just the particular company I was working for. But after my first six years, I saw strutural change coming in the economy and I needed a new market.
Now several jobs later, I see it's the rule not the exception. Big companies like to hire recent college grads. Networking or nepotism can counter that. Small companies will take older people. With little venture capital in the market and larger and larger capitalization required in the industry older workers need to find new careers.
I was browsing Death March at the book store the other day. Yourdon claims young workers are naive.
 
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1551
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You are not allowed to compete for entry level jobs. See my post here.
That claim that you can't have the job because you'll soon quit is bogus. Attrition rates for new college grads are high. You can't compete because you're old.
The EEOC has never responded to my complaint. But then George Bush is president.
 
Bela Bardak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
I've worked for a number of big name companies. Very early I noticed the new techinal people were almost always <30. I thought it was just the particular company I was working for. But after my first six years, I saw strutural change coming in the economy and I needed a new market.
Now several jobs later, I see it's the rule not the exception. Big companies like to hire recent college grads. Networking or nepotism can counter that. Small companies will take older people. With little venture capital in the market and larger and larger capitalization required in the industry older workers need to find new careers.
I was browsing Death March at the book store the other day. Yourdon claims young workers are naive.


I cnnot deny it, Rufus, though as you also point out:

Networking or nepotism can counter that. Small companies will take older people.


Seems to me that there are a certain number of 'slot' jobs' which will be reserved for the young and naive. Older workers need to find niche jobs. Some companies actively prize the skills of older workers. Or more accurately some managers prize our skills and will hire us whenever they can.
In my current job I met with a 50-ish 'principal consultant' who is wearing the 'HR manager' hat on my first interview and an architect on the second interview. I think the first interview was what landed me the job as the architect and I didn't hit it off that well. That and aceing the Java 101 test they gave us (thanks to the SCJP).
Certifications were a very important component of my job search strategy believe it or not. The hardest thing us oldsters have to overcome is the perception of being out of date. I used my SCJP and SCWCD certifications to 'prove' my 'up to date' credentials which allowed my natural advantages in full life cycle and design/architecture experience to win me the job.
There was also an element of networking involved, as I knew some of their people through my JUG (Java User Group) and mentioned that in the interview as one reason why I particularly wanted to join.
[ January 06, 2004: Message edited by: Bela Bardak ]
 
Barry's not gonna like this. Barry's not gonna like this one bit. What is Barry's deal with tiny ads?
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic