How is work and life in India?

[Korol Bloom]

Hi,
this summer I will graduate as master in cs. Actually I am thinking about what could be next, and this is my idea: Sell all my stuff and earn some money by contracts, then travel through India until no money left, then apply for a job in Bangalore.
How is life in India? Is it a nice place to live? And are there any it-jobs (programming, document-writing) for foreigners? What about educational sector? Currently I am teaching the bacchelor-students, and it might be nice to go on with this. There should be lots of cs-schools in India, right?
By the way, I am from Germany. Outsourcing is an issue over here, too, but I don't like this discussion. Please give me advise to Indian life & style.
sincerely, korol

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Korol Bloom:
Hi,
this summer I will graduate as master in cs. Actually I am thinking about what could be next, and this is my idea: Sell all my stuff and earn some money by contracts, then travel through India until no money left, then apply for a job in Bangalore.
How is life in India? Is it a nice place to live? And are there any it-jobs (programming, document-writing) for foreigners? What about educational sector? Currently I am teaching the bacchelor-students, and it might be nice to go on with this. There should be lots of cs-schools in India, right?
By the way, I am from Germany. Outsourcing is an issue over here, too, but I don't like this discussion. Please give me advise to Indian life & style.
sincerely, korol

Korol, India is so vast and so diverse that it will be difficult to give anyone a good enough idea that would enable one to make decisions. My suggestion to you would be, if you can afford it, take a trip to India & spend a couple of months there to get the feel for yourself. There are people (of not Indian origin) who just dislike the life, living and style of India (not to speak of economy) some to the point of hating it; then again there are people (of not Indian origin) who love it. My experience with non-Indians (those who have been there) has been that either they love it or hate it; rarely have I come across a non-Indian who is somewhere in between.
I don't know about employment opportunities for foreigners in India. This may be a somewhat of a delicate matter there since India has never really been in a position where foreigners may even consider working there (other than those that have gone there on joint ventures etc). I'll see if I can find anything on this. If you can email the Indian Embassy or the Indian Consular Office in Germany they will probably be able to give you very reliable information.
If you cannot afford to go there, email me if you have specific questions that you would like answers to & I'll do the best I can to answer them. I must warn you that I will not be the best person to answer your questions since I've been living in US since 1989 & India has changed dramatically since then. I actually had a culture shock during each of the 4 times I visited there since coming to US.

[Pradeep bhatt]

I actually had a culture shock during each of the 4 times I visited there since coming to US.

I would say that there is nothing that does not happen in India which happens in US. You are right, things haver changed very much since 1999.

[Arjun Shastry]

Yes,I am now in Bangalore.I saw many changes after my last visit in 1992.Some of the changes I observed - people calling
1) shopping malls instead of shops.
2) food joints instead of hotels.
3) pub instead Beer Bar.
4) Escort service instead of prostitution.
5)traffic lights instead of traffic signals.
Any other?
[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
Yes,I am now in Bangalore.I saw many changes after my last visit in 1992.Some of the changes I observed - people calling
1) shopping malls instead of shops.
2) food joints instead of hotels.
3) pub instead Beer Bar.
4) Escort service instead of prostitution.
5)traffic lights instead of traffic signals.
Any other?
[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]

[Balaji Loganathan]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
`
Any other?
[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]

6)Skirts/pants instead of Chudidhar
7)bare dressing
8)You can see almost all international restraunts like McD, Pizza hut, Domino,Coffee day,..... but i still love that "Dosa and Vada"
9)Malls: From Globus to Betty Bessi
10)You will be treated as jerk if you speak in local language.
11)More love marriages than arranged.
what else ??

[Pradeep bhatt]

Dosa and Vada"

Me too ..Bangalore is full of crap pizzas

[Varun Khanna]

Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:

6)Skirts/pants instead of Chudidhar
.....
what else ??

12) More of International Rock Stars/Bands performing.
(like Brayan Adams/Scorpians/Floyd etc.)
13) More software companies
what else??

[Ajeet Jose]

You guys are tempting me to move from Paris to Bangalore quickly ..

[Stephen Pride]

Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
I don't know about employment opportunities for foreigners in India. This may be a somewhat of a delicate matter there since India has never really been in a position where foreigners may even consider working there (other than those that have gone there on joint ventures etc). I'll see if I can find anything on this. If you can email the Indian Embassy or the Indian Consular Office in Germany they will probably be able to give you very reliable information.

This is something I am having a hard time verifying. I hear and read people say that it is next to impossible for foreign workers to work (permanently?) in both India and China. I've heard everything to its a lie and its easier for foreigners to work in India/China than in the US/UK -to- India/China flat-out refuse foreigners to work in their country. It may be something of an individual consideration, although it'd be nice to know exactly what the exact laws are in this regards.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Stephen Pride:

This is something I am having a hard time verifying. I hear and read people say that it is next to impossible for foreign workers to work (permanently?) in both India and China. I've heard everything to its a lie and its easier for foreigners to work in India/China than in the US/UK -to- India/China flat-out refuse foreigners to work in their country. It may be something of an individual consideration, although it'd be nice to know exactly what the exact laws are in this regards.

I dont think any foreigner will work for an Indian salary, he will want more and why will company pay more when they can hire Indian.

[Stephen Pride]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

I dont think any foreigner will work for an Indian salary, he will want more and why will company pay more when they can hire Indian.

In the vast majority of cases, I concur, however, it does not answer the underlying question posed about if it is even legal.

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by Stephen Pride:

..although it'd be nice to know exactly what the exact laws are in this regards.

I am not sure about the exact laws regarding foreigners working in India, but considering the fact that India has a very high rate of unemployment, and high availability of human resources, I doubt if there would ever be a formal process (similar to H1B) to let non-Indians immigrate to India as technology workers, especially in the IT industry.
Now, having said that, Indian firms, IMHO, may find a lot in foreign workers, including the excellent communication skills, which they may find highly useful while the client-interaction stages. However, there are many non-Indians working in India, doing knowledge transfer or other phases of the project, and most of they do on an on and off basis, traveling between India and their actual city/country of residence.
I am not sure how someone from Germany (Korol, in this case) would find India, but I am absolutely sure, first couple of weeks is going to be complete terror, culture shock, notorious Delhi belly and similar stuff! India can be pretty hard on West Europeans who enjoy highest living standards, personal privacy and fresh air. I totally agree with Sadanand here, for anyone who’s thinking about working in India, I think it’s a great idea to travel around India for a while, get over it, and see how your liking it – always test the waters before you jump.
Hope this helps and good luck with your plans, Korol!

[Karthik Guru]

Originally posted by Stephen Pride:

In the vast majority of cases, I concur, however, it does not answer the underlying question posed about if it is even legal.

Can't comment on permanent residency for want of information (not sure if a westerner is looking for it in the first place!). But our company had a few Americans working out of bangalore for close to 2 years. That definitely is possible. Huawei technologies, a chinese firm, seems to have employed many chinese in Bangalore. I see them everyday. The place where my cousin works, they also had koreans for interns. So it defintely looks possible.

[JiaPei Jen]

skilled foreign workers from USA & UK are looking to do the next best thing --- try and look for employment in prime destinations such as India. See
http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS.php?id=012204083729
[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: JiaPei Jen ]

[Matt Cao]

Hi,
Why's not if you are starving enough and you are no good in anything else.
Regards,
MCao

[Korol Bloom]

Thanks for your comments, folks!
well, Ajeet, Paris should be great if you know French, right? Yeah, that's a handicap in education. I learned Latin and ancient Greek, but no French. I hope there are some more people in Bangalore knowing English than there are in Paris.
So I should do research about Indian laws for working permissions. Yes, I will go to the Indian embassy. I think it should be possible to get a working visa, if you have a job-offer by a company. Thanks for the link, JiaPei! According to the article I am part of a trend.
But is payment for an Indian it-professional so low in India? I mean to say, food and all this stuff should be cheaper compared to Europe, too. Payment for foreigners in Germany usually is less than payment for locals. If it is the opposite in India, then this is not fair. Maybe globalization can equal that, will make us all the same poor.
A friend travelled through northern India a few years ago and spent a 1000$ in 10 weeks. She told me about her culture-shock (doing nothing the 1st week) and stomach-troubles. And she told me about the beauty of India as well! But travel is one thing, everyday's life in a big city another. Last summer I stayed in Wuhan (central China) for 2 months (that was hot). Living-conditions over there may be similar to Bangalore, except that there aren't taximeters in Chinese rickshaws and no chopsticks in India.
And the job itself? Do you usually contact headhunting-agencies or the it-companies immediately? Is there any difference between local companies and the dependencies of internatioal firms? Is it hard to enter business world after living a student's life for a long time? And what about jobs in education? Is it nice to teach computing in India?
I will check that legal thing out as far as possible and then post the result.
, korol

[Tara Bhattacharjee]

Definitely lot more english speaking people in India- at least at work and businesses.

[Arjun Shastry]

{
1)the job itself? Do you usually contact headhunting-agencies or the it-companies immediately?
2) Is there any difference between local companies and the dependencies of internatioal firms?
3)Is it hard to enter business world after living a student's life for a long time?
4)And what about jobs in education?
5)Is it nice to teach computing in India?
}
I am still in a process of finding those laws for foreigners working in India.and inform here later.Now about your questions jobs means IT jobs!!)
1)One can get a job either through recruiter/direct company.With more than 3/5 years of experience,people are finding the job of their choice(means more money!)
2)Work culturewise companies can be divided according to the size and projects they do.Many companies advertize themselves as CMM Level x(x=1 to 5)to attract big projects which they are geting.
3)Yes,Its dificult to find a job(with good salary/perks etc) if you are 'wasting' your career in academia.!!Now a days one may find a job,but I assume jobs with heavy academic are used in research/some breakthrough kind of companies which may be difficult to find in India in current scenario.
4)Jobs in education are there.Examinations are conducted nationwide for those institutions funded(fully or partially) funded by federal government.There are ofcourse Age limit and minimum grade criteria are applied due to over population.For more details(do google search on 1)Indian Institute of Science,Indian Institute of Technolgy,CDAC,NCST for Computer Science,See the kind of research/work conducted.)Salary ofcourse are lower than industry.Also remember that these institutes conduct exam once in a year.

[george franciscus]

Hi,
I have worked in india more than 3 years..It was so confortable for me. I have worked in seimens bangalore. The culture & life style is almost similar as europe. Becoz I used to meet with all those people in brigade road/MG Road in bangalore..
I think u can join in this curve..HAVE A BEST DEAL..

[Ashok Mash]

There is a thread in slashdot about moving to India for work and there are some very insightful replys in it. Here is the link.

[Korol Bloom]

thx, good link!

[Korol Bloom]

Wow, it feels so weird to stumble upon this old forum post of mine. Like a time warp. But really cool, how the internet can preserve. And very cool forum, by the way!

Well, actually I am not in India now, but in Nepal (travelling). I did not work in India, but in China. Not in the IT, but in the automotive. So I slightly missed the goal, or say it: the initial dream shifted towards pragmatism, when opportunities arose.
(just to share this outcome with you folks, in case you are interested in time warps, too)

About Bangalore -- well let's see. I may be there in December.

[Arjun Srivastava]

Korol Bloom wrote:Wow, it feels so weird to stumble upon this old forum post of mine. Like a time warp. But really cool, how the internet can preserve. And very cool forum, by the way!
Well, actually I am not in India now, but in Nepal (travelling). I did not work in India, but in China. Not in the IT, but in the automotive. So I slightly missed the goal, or say it: the initial dream shifted towards pragmatism, when opportunities arose.
(just to share this outcome with you folks, in case you are interested in time warps, too)
About Bangalore -- well let's see. I may be there in December.

Visa doesn't require while traveling from Nepal to India.
Great. FYI Bangalore is now Bengaluru! Enjoy.

[Korol Bloom]

Sorry, I did not make it to Bengaluru. I had an appointment with my girlfriend in Mumbai, but she was repelled at the border and sent back to London. Her visa (multiple entry) had required her to stay away from India for at least two month after her first visit, and it were only 5 weeks. She didn't know the regulation, and the airline didn't check her passport carefully on check in. So -- she was trapped at Mumbai airport, deprived from drinking water, no telephone, and had to go back London. A really bad experience.

The German embassy said, that this regularly happens. So why the Indian government invents such special regulations? Do they want to trap foreigners on Indian airports? I hope, the regulations will soon be reworked. At least, the immigration officers could be so friendly to offer water and phone calls.

So, we had to change our plans and spent three weeks in Sri Lanka. Did not need any visa to enter there. It ment about 1000EUR additional flight costs for us, but we had a good time on the island :-)
I mean, we could have had a good time in India, too, but if India doesn't want us...