is this job offer acceptable?

[Edy Yu]

Industry: consulting
Work: J2EE architect
Location: Chicago
Salary: 100,000
Travel: 100%
First of all, the salary is lower than I expected, given the type of work and the caliber of that company. Second, the travel is way too much ...
I am in Ohio right now. Does anybody know how much more expensive to relocate to Chicago?
Thanks in advance ...

[Ashok Raok]

The salary is at the lower end of the spectrum for architects. Typical salary ranges from 100K -120K.
But, this would defintely be at the upper end fro java developers that range from 80-100K.
Because you are mostly traveling, your out of pocket expenses are going to be minimal, so you will be saving $$ there. If you're single, 100% travel is okay but if you have a wife and/or kids, then this would only work as a short term gig. Travel can get boring after sometime.
Aparetments in the chicagoland area are not much more expensive than other areas especially if you avoid downtown areas. Owning will be more expensive although some of the outer suburbs may give you good value.
Gieven today's market, I'd say go for it.

[Mark Herschberg]

Chicago is not much more expensive than Ohio.
We have no basis on which to consider the salary. What is an architect? At a a top IT company (e.g. IBM, Microsoft) an architect is someone with extensive experience. I've known consulting companies where you can become an architect after 2 years. Give us the requirements and responsibilities, as well as your background, and we'll be better able to evaluate the offer.
--Mark

[Eleison Zeitgeist]

Originally posted by Edy Yu:
Industry: consulting
Work: J2EE architect
Location: Chicago
Salary: 100,000
Travel: 100%
First of all, the salary is lower than I expected, given the type of work and the caliber of that company. Second, the travel is way too much ...
I am in Ohio right now. Does anybody know how much more expensive to relocate to Chicago?
Thanks in advance ...

I live in chicago (Wrigleview to be precise). Apartments are priced fairly 800-1400 for a one bedroom in a safe neighborhood. Gold coast (one of the most expensive zip codes in the nation wrt to median price of condos/homes) apts will be arround 1300-1600++...
Parking is a b*tch; 150-300/ month.. free street side parting available, but IMHO, not worth it.
100K for starting slary. Crap shot; Chicago's not really know for good salaries in the IT field. If I lived somewhere else, could probably earn 15-20K more (just speculation on my part).
Restaurants also priced fairly -- obviously, there are expense restaurants and cheap restaurants; you pay for what you get, plus there is a wide range...

If I was traveling 100%, I would get a small studio ~$600 and call it a day.
If you take this job, you aren't really going to see your apt for a while :-)
As a side note: In general, 100% travel would be a non-negotiable for me. I use to travel a lot, know of friends who did, all in all, was fun for a while, but gets boring fast... Actually, you could probably get away with not having a place and staying with relatives -- know of a guy who did that; he worked for a big consoluting firm (saved a ton of money).
-Eleison
ps. good luck :-)
[ March 01, 2004: Message edited by: Eleison Zeitgeist ]

[Edy Yu]

I have 7.5 years overall experience in the IT industry.
5 years Java
4 years J2EE
3 years in the architect role with a Global 200 company in Ohio(which is my current job)
Has B.S and M.S. ...
Former employers include a couple of big names in the software and consulting industry.
I currently making $86,000 in Ohio which is OK in my area. I rent a nice two bedroom townhouse for $565/month
The reason I want to move to Chicago is to start my weekend MBA program at U of Chicago GSB.
I am married and had experience traveling 100%, which I hated ...
But in today's job market, I found it is really hard to land an ideal job at an ideal city with an ideal company.
The recruiter said $86,000 to $100,000 is a big jump

Since the compensation is not finally decided yet, does anybody have any good advice negotiating with the employer?
Thanks in advance ...
[ March 01, 2004: Message edited by: Edy Yu ]

[Ashok Raok]

>>The recruiter said $86,000 to $100,000 is a big jump
Negotiating now could be a problem since you have, apparently, already revealed your current salary. It's always best to avoid getting pinned down on your current salary.
At this time, you can try a couple things.
1. Go to a salary relocation calculator and see what the numbers equate for a move from Ohio to Chicago. You can use that for leverage in addition to maybe a 4-5% raise.
2. Claim to have received another offer for 100K or claim that you are very close to receving one. If you have not truly received another offer, you will have to sound convincing. You will have to bluff them out. Smetimes this can work.
Good luck..

[Edy Yu]

Thanks Ashok.
The recuriter pushed real hard to ask my current salary initially.
I didn't want to lie about my current salary to the recuiter initially and 6 figure salary here in the small town where I am living now is rare.
Because of the economy, I haven't had salary raise for 3 years
Can I bring this fact to the employer as a way to negotiate?
BTW, Ashok, for the $100,000 - $120,000 range you mentioned earlier, is it for average US cities or for the cities on the east/west coast, namely, New York and San Francisco ...
[ March 01, 2004: Message edited by: Edy Yu ]

[Ashok Raok]

>Because of the economy, I haven't had salary raise for 3 years. Can I bring this fact to the employer as a way to negotiate?
Hi Edy, I'm not really sure if this will help or hurt. Maybe someone else on the board could chime in with their opinion.

>BTW, Ashok, for the $100,000 - $120,000 range you mentioned earlier, is it for average US cities or for the cities on the east/west coast, namely, New York and San Francisco ...
For an architect with at least 10 years evolutionary experience [MF, Client-Server, Web] this is common. I live in Minneapolis, which is a smaller version of Chicago, and have seen this here. It may be that for 7.5 years overall, you're probably looking at between 80-100 K. However, exceptions always exist.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Edy Yu:

Can I bring this fact to the employer as a way to negotiate?

Sure you can bring it up; but why would they care?
That's not their problem. It's only an issue if they base your salary on previous salary. Of course if they do that, they're not too clueful to begin with.
See my posting here.
--Mark

[shay Aluko]

Originally posted by Edy Yu:
I have 7.5 years overall experience in the IT industry.
5 years Java
4 years J2EE
3 years in the architect role with a Global 200 company in Ohio(which is my current job)
Has B.S and M.S. ...
Former employers include a couple of big names in the software and consulting industry.
I currently making $86,000 in Ohio which is OK in my area. I rent a nice two bedroom townhouse for $565/month
The reason I want to move to Chicago is to start my weekend MBA program at U of Chicago GSB.
I am married and had experience traveling 100%, which I hated ...
But in today's job market, I found it is really hard to land an ideal job at an ideal city with an ideal company.
The recruiter said $86,000 to $100,000 is a big jump

Since the compensation is not finally decided yet, does anybody have any good advice negotiating with the employer?
Thanks in advance ...
[ March 01, 2004: Message edited by: Edy Yu ]

86,000 to 100,000 is not a big jump, you have to remember the recruiter is not working for you, he/she is just trying to make money. You need to drive a hard bargain and get the best deal you can, cos once you are in, the raises you get will be minimal. I am in a similar position, though i won't consider myself an architect yet. I don't think you you settle for anything less than a $20K to $25k increase

[Edy Yu]

Thank you all for the response.
I'll fight with the employer and will post the result here later ...

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by shay Aluko:

you have to remember the recruiter is not working for you, he/she is just trying to make money

I would generally agree. Note, however, that most recruiters get a percentage of your base salary, so there is some goal alignment.
--Mark