AOL moves to India

[Jeroen Wenting]

AOL are moving their development shop to Bangalore: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/03/31/india.aol.ap/index.html

[Arjun Shastry]

QA analyst with 5 years experience is getting Rs 575000/year there(inside info!).Thats approx $12800/year.

[Jon McDonald]

Thats about $6.40 an hour
It's funny, I was on a Job site and a guy was looking for someone who knew statistics (Bayesian Chaining stuff) and C/C++. He was offering $10 per hour. This is in the U.S. Thankfully it is not the norm. The reason why I bring this up is that when I saw the guy's $10 per hour ad, I thought he was nuts asking that little. Funny thing is he probably will find someone to take it. Hell, If I had more knowledge in stats I might apply, simply because the project seemed interesting and it was only part time.
Jon
[ April 01, 2004: Message edited by: Jon McDonald ]
[ April 01, 2004: Message edited by: Jon McDonald ]

[Manish Hatwalne]

IMHO, 5.75L/p.a. for a 5 year experienced professional is not very high. Especially in Banglore. Is that an above average sal for Banglore?
- Manish

[Arjun Shastry]

5.75 lakh/year is above average.Now what is average?If we take 10 big companies,5.75 is good.If you take small comapnies,its aobve average.Main thing is its more than sufficient to feed you and your family with savings.
Say in hand ,he gets Rs 45,000,
Rent:Rs 6000
Food:Rs 6000(with family)
Car:Rs 1000
Medical:Rs 1000
Others: Rs say 3000
Total at the most Rs 20,000
Saving:Rs 25,000/month

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:

...
Saving:Rs 25,000/month

Yup, that�s about 500 euros saved per month � In Western Europe, someone with an active lifestyle, should get at least 2500 to 3000 euros per month to save that sort of money � that�s more or less like 50K euros (60-65K USD) per annum (and it�s the average salary of Java Programmers with 4-5 years experience rate,).
Now there�s some not-so-useful observation for you!

[Pradeep bhatt]

5.75 is very low. Now even freshers get 3.5, right?

[Jeroen Wenting]

Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

Yup, that�s about 500 euros saved per month � In Western Europe, someone with an active lifestyle, should get at least 2500 to 3000 euros per month to save that sort of money � that�s more or less like 50K euros (60-65K USD) per annum (and it�s the average salary of Java Programmers with 4-5 years experience rate,).
Now there�s some not-so-useful observation for you!

That's �2500-�3000 AFTER taxes of course...
Where do you get 50K a year with 5 years experience?
I'm more or less on normal pay here and I make just over 30K with 7-8 years experience (though not all in Java, I started out in Cobol and C/C++)...

[Arjun Shastry]

May be but not every company offers 3.5 for freshers.and 5.75 is below average?then whats the average salary for 5 years of experience?(be honest)

[Mani Ram]

It is not easy to find the average salary in Indian software industry, for the total industry is crazy.
I know a person with 5 years of experience getting 3.5L/annum and I know another person in the same company getting over 5L/annum with less than 3 years of experience (their skill set are almost identical).
In case of the first person, he is staying in the company for 5 years and gets small pay revisions once a year or twice a year.
But the later person joined the company with 2.5 years of experience and the company gave a 90% hike to what he was getting in his earlier company. Thus the second guy's salary exceeds the first person's salary by a huge margin.
And the companies doesn't revise the salary of the people of first kind to match that of the second kind.

[jyothi godavarthy]

Originally posted by Mani Ram:
It is not easy to find the average salary in Indian software industry, for the total industry is crazy.
I know a person with 5 years of experience getting 3.5L/annum and I know another person in the same company getting over 5L/annum with less than 3 years of experience (their skill set are almost identical).
In case of the first person, he is staying in the company for 5 years and gets small pay revisions once a year or twice a year.
But the later person joined the company with 2.5 years of experience and the company gave a 90% hike to what he was getting in his earlier company. Thus the second guy's salary exceeds the first person's salary by a huge margin.
And the companies doesn't revise the salary of the people of first kind to match that of the second kind.

This is the reason why people here always keep changing companies.....

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
May be but not every company offers 3.5 for freshers.and 5.75 is below average?then whats the average salary for 5 years of experience?(be honest)

Tell me how many years of exp you have?

[Manish Hatwalne]

Originally posted by Mani Ram:
[QB]It is not easy to find the average salary in Indian software industry, for the total industry is crazy.
[QB]

Very very true!!! But I don't think this applies to only Indian s/w industry, I have seen US companies doing this as well.
rgds,
- Manish

[Varun Khanna]

Originally posted by Mani Ram:
I know a person with 5 years of experience getting 3.5L/annum and I know another person in the same company getting over 5L/annum with less than 3 years of experience (their skill set are almost identical).

In this kind of case, in general, the person getting lesser salary must have got lots of onsite opportunities. And in that way both, the company and the employee, are happy.
This is very common trend in people in Infy/TCS. My friend in these company always tell me that they are getting "so less" salary, pumping a "feel good" factor in me, but the important difference being they are complaining from onsite.
[ April 02, 2004: Message edited by: Varun Khanna ]

[Mani Ram]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
May be but not every company offers 3.5 for freshers.and 5.75 is below average?then whats the average salary for 5 years of experience?(be honest)

My experience: 4 years & 8 months
My Salary: Just above 3.8L/annum
(The company I work for is listed in the TOP 20 IT SOFTWARE & SERVICE EXPORTERS FROM INDIA (listed by NASSCOM)
Anyone else dare to share their info?

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Mani Ram:

My experience: 4 years & 8 months
My Salary: Just above 3.8L/annum
(The company I work for is listed in the TOP 20 IT SOFTWARE & SERVICE EXPORTERS FROM INDIA (listed by NASSCOM)
Anyone else dare to share their info?

You must have many years abroad?

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

I'm more or less on normal pay here and I make just over 30K with 7-8 years experience (though not all in Java, I started out in Cobol and C/C++)...

Hmm, that sounds a bit too low, Jeroen. I don't know where you are in Europe, but running rate for Java Developers with 5+ years experience gets around 30K pounds in the UK (give or take a 5K depending on which part of the country you are), and in Ireland when I am, its again in the around 35 to 50K (euros) range.

[sunitha reghu]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
5.75 lakh/year is above average.Now what is average?If we take 10 big companies,5.75 is good.If you take small comapnies,its aobve average.Main thing is its more than sufficient to feed you and your family with savings.
Say in hand ,he gets Rs 45,000,
Rent:Rs 6000
Food:Rs 6000(with family)
Car:Rs 1000
Medical:Rs 1000
Others: Rs say 3000
Total at the most Rs 20,000
Saving:Rs 25,000/month

Saving: 25,000/month wow you must have saved a lot:
Car payment is just 1000? is this gas price?
What about other bills? electrical, water,telephone etc?
What about clothing? Cosmetics? Will all these fil in others 3000?
What about Resturant bills?

[Karthik Guru]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:

I agree. IMHO 5.75 lacs/annum (CTC) does not evaluate to 45k / month (in hand). It will be somewhere around 35-37k. Moreover there is a variable pay component which is normally 10% of the CTC. AOL, apparently is not doing well. So am sure one has to take a considerable cut there. So i dont see this particular person making more than 35k /month.For 5.75 lacs the savings of 25k is defintely exaggerated IMHO.
For someone making close to 7 lacs,yup it is a possiblity.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:

Saving: 25,000/month wow you must have saved a lot:
Car payment is just 1000? is this gas price?
What about other bills? electrical, water,telephone etc?
What about clothing? Cosmetics? Will all these fil in others 3000?
What about Resturant bills?

Indian salaries are all waste! no savings at all. AOL is just giving 12k per annum whereas in US they would have to give about 95k.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:

Saving: 25,000/month wow you must have saved a lot:
Car payment is just 1000? is this gas price?
What about other bills? electrical, water,telephone etc?
What about clothing? Cosmetics? Will all these fil in others 3000?
What about Resturant bills?

Yes,rate is 37Rs /litre.
Electrical Rs 600/month
Water bill 100 to 200
Telephone: say 1000
Clothing?you don't purchase daily,right?Cosmetics,I don't know!
Restaurants:Rs 100 to 150 per person,You don't want to go daily,right?
Ok,Atleast 15K,you should be able to save.If spouse is working then may be more.
If you want to mimic the spending lifestyle of others,then this may be the fraction of your dreaming salary.
No company will be able to give salary of $95K in India even if you have 100 patents.
[ April 02, 2004: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]
[ April 02, 2004: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]

[Pradeep bhatt]

IBM in US pay about 125K per annum for 4-5 years of exp .. Dont blame me if it is wrong.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

Indian salaries are all waste! no savings at all. AOL is just giving 12k per annum whereas in US they would have to give about 95k.

You have to compare with people in INDIA !and not with your friends in San Jose earning $75K.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
IBM in US pay about 125K per annum for 4-5 years of exp .. Dont blame me if it is wrong.

I don't believe!4-5 years of experience in what?may be people having
thiskind of resume.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:

You have to compare with people in INDIA !and not with your friends in San Jose earning $75K.

I believe that international comparison must be done so I get to know how poor I am.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Food is really costly in Banaglore. Minimum 50 Rupees for anything.

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

I believe that international comparison must be done so I get to know how poor I am.

"A poor man isn't one who has little, but one who wants much."
OK, when you can't afford food, shelter and clothing, most people will consider you poor anyway. OTOH, India is a country where a holy man can live on the streets, wear nothing, and live off the charity of passers-by. If he considers himself spiritually rich, I'm not going to dispute him. Most of us are would prefer a crasser lifestyle.
Poverty isn't a purely linear statistic. In India, a programmer may make enough to hire a servant or 2, which helps trickle down the wealth. But that same salary would require 6 months earnings or more to buy a fast PC.
OTOH, my wife would love to be able to keep servants. Only the wealthy can do that in the US. For the rest of us, you can rent a maid service for about $50/hr - or about $2,000 Rs, if you prefer.
Being a geek, however, I prefer being able to own the fast PC.
We really have to feel sorry for 50Rs food </not>. It'll run you about 200Rs ($5) at most fast-food places in this town for lunch. And we're one of the cheaper parts of the country.
Thank goodness for Peanut Butter Sandwiches!
1 loaf bread: $1.50 / 65.55 Rs
1 large jar peanut butter about $2.50 (good for 2-3 weeks) 109.250Rs
Knife and lunch bag extra!

[sunitha reghu]

Pradeep,
Min 50 rs? Is that cost of the coke you talking about?

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Food is really costly in Banaglore. Minimum 50 Rupees for anything.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Food is really costly in Banaglore. Minimum 50 Rupees for anything.

What?Food is cheaper in Bangalore than Mumbai,Pune,Chennai.Thats my experience.Real estate is too costly.Purchasing 2 bedroom flat in JayaNagar requires min Rs 30,00000!!thats US $66,666!!.

[Billy Tsai]

This is a mistake?
how is any IT professional going to survive outside india?

[Varun Khanna]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Food is really costly in Banaglore. Minimum 50 Rupees for anything.

I am not rich, but you are expected pay atleast around Rs. 35/- to 50/- if you are eating outside. Thats not too much.
I am staying in one of the cheapest cities of the India still end up paying close to three figures whenever I eat outside.
Gone are the days when you used to feed whole family in 100 Rs.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
Pradeep,
Min 50 rs? Is that cost of the coke you talking about?

Coke is cheaper. I can get 200ml coke for Rs.5 only.