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Good book on learning JSP

 
Ashish Gupta
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Hi JSP Gurus,
Could you recommend me a good book on JSP/servlet which teaches by example. I want to create some database (Oracle) driven web site (for my personal work). Also the book should also talk about putting JSP along with the HTML.

I am decently good in backend (Java & PL/SQL) but have never got chance to do much in UI (JSP, HTML) and would really appreciat if you can suggest me a good book.

Thanks in advance.
 
Steven Bell
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I'm not much of a JSP guru, but a couple of technologies I would recommend checking out.

Tapestry:
This is an alternative to JSP's. It is a framework that helps you build a web app in a similar fashion to a client app (abstracts much of the session, object mapping, ect. away), lets you deal with objects rather than tons of Strings, and provides for reuse of page components.

Spring:
This is similar to Struts, but those I've talked to who use it love it. Spring uses JSP's, but has a framework for dealing with much of the redudant code and navigation. There are many parts to Spring, but It is managable and will probably save you more time than it takes to learn it.

Hibernate:
basically an OR mapping tool. Build your POJO data objects, create a map file, create a DB, then you can just save, load, update, and find your POJO's. I started using it a couple months ago, replaced a home rolled DB layer in one of my personal apps, and haven't look back. I love it. There are tools that will build two of the parts if you have one. (mapping and objects from a DB, mapping and DB from Objects, Objects and DB from mapping). really great.

As for a good JSP book, as I said I'm not a JSP guru, but some people I've asked have suggested Core Servlets and JSP.
 
Bear Bibeault
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Personally I'd recommed getting a good foundation in Servlets and JSP under your belt before diving off into advanced frameworks.

Check out the JavaRanch Bunkhouse for book recommendations.
[ January 25, 2005: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Steven, why list alternate technologies when someone asks specifically about books relating to JSP?

I learned a lot from "Professional JSP" and O'Reilly's JSP book. Pro JSP is now probably quite outdated though...
Head First Servlets and JSP is probably also worth checking out.
 
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Steven, why list alternate technologies when someone asks specifically about books relating to JSP?


Well, he said this was a personal project. When I do a personal project, having the flexability to choose any technology I want, I like to see what is out there to ease my work. Spring and Struts are both JSP and if you are going to use them you will still need to learn JSP first. Tapesty doesn't use JSP and if you want to use Tapestry learning JSP would propbably just slow you down.

I wouldn't recommend anybody build just a straight JSP site when there are such good frameworks out there to greatly simplify the whole mess.
 
Bear Bibeault
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I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. I always recommend that beginners avoid frameworks until they understand the fundamentals. I feel that:

a) In many cases, frameworks do not really make things any simpler. They just complicate things in different ways than not using them might.

b) In most cases, frameworks obfuscate the underlying technology so that the beginner doesn't learn anything about the fundamentals of JSP and Servlets, they learn the framework.

c) Knowledge of the fundamentals greatly aids in using and understanding the frameworks if one is to be used.

d) A beginner doesn't have the necessary knowledge to be able to judge which framework, if any, is best suited to the task at hand.

And in response to:

I wouldn't recommend anybody build just a straight JSP site when there are such good frameworks out there to greatly simplify the whole mess.


With a good knowledge of Servlet and JSP fundamentals, there's no need for there to be a whole mess to begin with.
[ January 25, 2005: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
 
Jason Nesbitt
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Agreed. It's hard to appreciate and understand the purpose of those frameworks until you have had to experience the pains of developing applications without them.
 
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. I always recommend that beginners avoid frameworks until they understand the fundamentals. I feel that:
a) In many cases, frameworks do not really make things any simpler. They just complicate things in different ways than not using them might.

If frameworks don't make things simpler why do so many use them? Why is so much effort put into building them? I've written straight JSP's and I've used a couple of frameworks. The code using the frameworks was simpler, easier to understand, easier to modify, and less buggy.

b) In most cases, frameworks obfuscate the underlying technology so that the beginner doesn't learn anything about the fundamentals of JSP and Servlets, they learn the framework.

Kinda like how Java obfuscates things like memory managment, networking, file acess. Yes it helps to understand the fundamentals of writing low level C when writing Java, but that doesn't mean you need that knowledge.

c) Knowledge of the fundamentals greatly aids in using and understanding the frameworks if one is to be used.

Same as above.

d) A beginner doesn't have the necessary knowledge to be able to judge which framework, if any, is best suited to the task at hand.

So because somebody doesn't have the 'knowdelge to judge which is best', according to you, I shouldn't even mention some of the options available. I also thought that was part of the point of these forums, to help people come up with the best solutions. Do you not think Ashish has the competence to go look at some of the frameworks and then come back and ask questions if he becomes interested in one. Most of them have great intros and howto's anyway.
 
Bear Bibeault
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according to you, I shouldn't even mention some of the options available.


No one said you couldn't or shouldn't state your opinions.

I stated mine, which differs from yours, and the readers of these posts can judge for themselves.
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Well said Bear. Telling beginners to use a framework (any framework) instead of learning the underlying tech is like telling them to use an IDE (any IDE) when they ask how to set their classpath or call their compiler...
 
Steven Bell
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Ok, I submit. Although I will say that with one of the frameworks I mentioned, Tapestry, JSP's are not even involved. bit of a different approach.
 
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