No Job No Experience, No Experience No Job

[Alfred Harre]

I have graduated from one of the top 10 universities in the world but I am stuck in the vicious circle of No Job No Experience, No Experience No Job. Very sad to say that even open source projects ask
"How many years of experience do you have?"
"What are your areas of expertise?"
Any ideas, comments, advices are welome.

[Nathaniel Stoddard]

I'm sure that all open-source projects don't ask--they just care about who is involved and who isn't. There was some recent news clip that mentioned that alot of employers consider experience with open-source projects to be equivalent on a result to regular full-time experience. (Barring some things like team skills, etc.)
Also, don't be afraid to start small. If you can't get a solid development position, maybe you could find some support position that would start giving you some relevant experience while you continue to find something that fits what you really want.
As somebody that didn't go to any top-10 school, I can tell you I see posts for people like you all the time. It seems to say alot. (There was a long post a little while ago that discussed schools (and salary, and others) as a leading indicator for success. I'm babbling so I'm going to stop. Hope that sheds some light on something for you though.

[B Hayes]

I think we've all been there. You just have to stick with it. After graduating I went 6 months with only 3 interviews, and I had a GPA of 3.45.
When I look back on how I got my first job, I think it was because of how keen I was in certain areas of IT. For example, I loved Assembly language back in the 90s and the company that hired me had a ton of it. Sure, on my resume I had no Assembly experience but I could "talk the talk" because of the hours I spent on it -- on my own time.
What do you really like about IT? What are you really good at? You should focus on that stuff because that's what you'll be passionate about in an interview. I think this is why you'll find interviewers asking about "your areas of expertise". They want to make sure you're a good match for what they have planned for that position.

[Jesse Torres]

Originally posted by Alfred Harre:
I have graduated from one of the top 10 universities in the world but Any ideas, comments, advices are welome.

Alfred, what is your degree in, for example is it a BS/CS? Also, Sun Java Certifications help.
Good luck!

[Marc Peabody]

A friend from high school used to always say:
No money, no honey
Money, honey, no money
("Honey" means girlfriend)
That had nothing to do with this but reminded me of it.
Anyway, I think the concept of job experience isn't so much that you've experience at a job in programming... or even software necessarily.
Many companies require the experience so you can have more soft skills. When you first start off working at a larger company there can be a number of speed bumps. The culture is nothing like college.
The HR from the job I'm at now referred to my last job as "good experience". He paid more attention to the company and less so on the fact that I was at a call center. (Tech support mind you, but a call center nonetheless.)
I've always been a fan of certifications as well. It shows initiative.

[Jeffrey Hunter]

Stop telling them what you can do, and show them. Top 10 school in the world -- you must have done some serious programming, so gather up some screenshots, make a link to a website, and write down the link on your resume. Send the link to recruiters. Include descriptions of what the programs do, what problems you overcame, etc. etc. Recruiters and HR people wade through hundreds of black and white resumes at a time...what is going to make yours stand out? Send them a CD-ROM with your portfolio on it.
Didn't your school have a career center?

[Billy Tsai]

do u have a master degree from the top 10 university in the world too?

[Marc Peabody]

Jeffrey is right. A portfolio separates you from the competition. Unfortunately, most colleges do not require portfolios to graduate. If it's not required, most students don't do it.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Alfred Harre:
I have graduated from one of the top 10 universities in the world but I am stuck in the vicious circle of No Job No Experience, No Experience No Job. Very sad to say that even open source projects ask
"How many years of experience do you have?"
"What are your areas of expertise?"
Any ideas, comments, advices are welome.

I'm a little confused. I only know US universities, but even ones far outside the top 10 have career service offices. What happened when you used that?
--Mark

[Steven Broadbent]

but now jobs are asking for five years exp but offering two years salary.
There has probably never been a worse time to break into this business.

[Jeroen Wenting]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

I'm a little confused. I only know US universities, but even ones far outside the top 10 have career service offices. What happened when you used that?
--Mark

Top 10 schools don't NEED career offices. Just mentioning you graduated there will get you hired instantly at a top salary for doing nothing at all.
At least that's what many schools calling themselves "top xxx" seem to convey to their students.

[Don Stadler]

Originally posted by Steven Broadbent:

There has probably never been a worse time to break into this business.

Arguably 1982 was worse if anything. I broke in in spring of 1983 after 9 months of futility.
Worse because things like certification didn't exist to help you prove your credentials, worse because the books and online examples didn't exist to help you get up to speed. But not much worse I will grant you. Much the same.
The advantage you will have is that the people who do manage to beat the odds will tend to be smarter and tougher than those starting in easier times. Not necessarily 'better' (try to define that). My guess is that the survivors (both career starters and experienced people) will be (as a body) considerably better than the normal run of competence in this industry.

[Don Stadler]

Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

Top 10 schools don't NEED career offices. Just mentioning you graduated there will get you hired instantly at a top salary for doing nothing at all.

Jeroen, Mark knows all about 'top ten'. MIT. Need I say more? 'Instantly at a top salary'? That's so yesterday!
[ May 10, 2004: Message edited by: Don Stadler ]

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

Top 10 schools don't NEED career offices. Just mentioning you graduated there will get you hired instantly at a top salary for doing nothing at all.

As Don noted, I went to MIT. We have a very good career services office. My friends at other ivy+ schools also have good career services offices. They are a key part of how most of us find jobs right out of college.

Originally posted by Steven Broadbent:
but now jobs are asking for five years exp but offering two years salary.

True. I was interviewing and the company wanted to make me an offer. They asked for my salary. I told them, and they responded with a salary most EE/CS students from my college make within 0-2 years of graduating.

Originally posted by Steven Broadbent:

There has probably never been a worse time to break into this business.

1904 (software jobs were in mighty short supply then :-p )
--Mark

[Billy Tsai]

How many minimum years of professional experience is enough to be able to find an IT job in the industry in places like USA, Australia or NZ without too much problem and trouble as a intermediate IT position ?
2 or 3 years?
[ May 10, 2004: Message edited by: Billy Tsai ]

[SJ Adnams]

go to a temping agency & get work as a data entry, fileing, documentation, tester.. whatever
once you get a network of contacts it is easy to get the job you want.

[Billy Tsai]

I am talking about professional experience in a certain technology field.