H1B still in demand

[Arjun Shastry]

After offshoring,visa reduction was a natural choice. but despite of offshoring to countries like India,Russia how come H1-B visa is still in demand?TCS says reduction in Visas will affect its projects.TCS is going public(IPO) .Its making 1 full page ad daily saying 'its truly global company'
TCS on H1-B

[Iman Shudras]

After the election in November, the worker shortage will be back on.

1. They get paid less.
2. After 6 years they can be thrown away.
3. They can't change jobs for more money.
4. They are the right age ( < 30 ).
5. If they rock the boat, they are back on the boat.
6. They don't mind living four to a crummy apartment.
7. They are ignorant of US culture and are easily duped.
8. They don't have many outside interests so they can work, work, work.
9. Natives leary of these careers because they have seen both ends.

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:
After the election in November, the worker shortage will be back on.

1.

[QB]They get paid less..

Agreed

2.

After 6 years they can be thrown away..

.Frankly speaking I have seen very few H1Bs who have returned back to India after job loss(except breif period after 9/11).Most of them get 'settled' in a company in 2 years time.

3.

They can't change jobs for more money..

If H1-Bs are in demand,why can't they change the jobs for more money(fear of not getting Green card in 6 years?(all can't get GC ,am I right?)

6.

They don't mind living four to a crummy apartment..

I may be wrong but I have seen this only in Silicon Valley,Is this all over US?

7.

They are ignorant of US culture and are easily duped..

Only in terms of salary,right? what else?

8.

They don't have many outside interests so they can work, work, work..

.Have you seen this? or read somewhere?

[Iman Shudras]

I may be wrong but I have seen this only in Silicon Valley,Is this all over US?

Natives could be living 4 to an apartment in New York, NY or Boston.

Washington DC, Chicago, Dallas, most everywhere in California all expensive.

If you like Omaha, Nebrasksa or Des Moines, Iowa real estate is much cheaper and the wind, snow and ice are free.

[Arjun Shastry]

{
Natives could be living 4 to an apartment in New York, NY or Boston.
Washington DC, Chicago, Dallas, most everywhere in California all expensive.
}
and AFAIK many H1-Bs stay in these areas?

[Iman Shudras]

These are all concentrations of hi-tech employment.

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:


Natives could be living 4 to an apartment in New York, NY or Boston.

Washington DC, Chicago, Dallas, most everywhere in California all expensive.

If you like Omaha, Nebrasksa or Des Moines, Iowa real estate is much cheaper and the wind, snow and ice are free.

Florida's not that expensive and I already know one Indian who'd love to live here - we have a more tropical climate. Complete with biting and stinging insects.

My understanding is that H1-B salaries are required to be at least 80% of the median salary of the job for the metro area in question. Except maybe for DC, that should be quite sufficient to live independently.

L-1's on the other hand, I'm told ARE cramming 4 to the apartment locally, but that's because they are not subject to the H1-B minimum wage restrictions and the $1K/month per-diem just about matches the median rent on a 2-bedroom apartment around here. Which still leaves utilities, transportation, entertainment and groceries to be covered by their "back-home" part of the paycheck. Assuming it's not supporting the family back home.

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:
After the election in November, the worker shortage will be back on.

1. They get paid less.

True.

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

2. After 6 years they can be thrown away.

I've been in this country for about 15 years now and have yet to see a case of any H1B visa holder getting thrown out after the 6-year persiod. Everyone that I'd known have all gone on to getting their permanent residency. I'm not saying that there isn't a single case of someone having had to leave because of the expiration on one's H1; just that this is not the norm. Please don't mention the post-9/11 situation. 9/11 was/is not the norm.

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

3. They can't change jobs for more money.

Sure they can, and they have. In today's market probably they can't because it is the buyer's market today. But this applies to citizens & permanent residents also.

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

4. They are the right age ( < 30 ).

How does this factor in? Ageism?

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

5. If they rock the boat, they are back on the boat.

Many are probably afraid to rock the boat. They probably wouldn't rock the boat even in India. (I'm assuming that we are talking predominantly of Indians.)

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

6. They don't mind living four to a crummy apartment.

They probably have gotten used to this since they would have done this in Mumbai and Bangalore as the cost of living is very high there. Besides, I think many of them (especially bachelors) don't mind it since they get to be with others of their kind (evidently I've no validating evidence for this).

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

7. They are ignorant of US culture and are easily duped.

What aspect of US culture are they ignorant about? US culture is splashed all over the India media. If it is the market conditions and their impact on the salaries that they can command, yes, then I'd agree with you about their ignorance; I'd still have to disagree with you on it the market conditions being a cultural thing.

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

8. They don't have many outside interests so they can work, work, work.

Why don't they have any outside interests? Didn't they have any outside interests in India? If so, then, from their living/life POV nothing has changed. They can always cultivate outside interests. All this, however, is beside the point - you can always refuse to put in the 80 hours a week regardless of whether you have any outside interests or not.

Originally posted by Iman Shudras:

9. Natives leary of these careers because they have seen both ends.

You lost me on this one. Who are the natives here? Which careers are you referring to? And what the the 2 ends of what?

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:


Florida's not that expensive and I already know one Indian who'd love to live here - we have a more tropical climate. Complete with biting and stinging insects.

My understanding is that H1-B salaries are required to be at least 80% of the median salary of the job for the metro area in question. Except maybe for DC, that should be quite sufficient to live independently.

L-1's on the other hand, I'm told ARE cramming 4 to the apartment locally, but that's because they are not subject to the H1-B minimum wage restrictions and the $1K/month per-diem just about matches the median rent on a 2-bedroom apartment around here. Which still leaves utilities, transportation, entertainment and groceries to be covered by their "back-home" part of the paycheck. Assuming it's not supporting the family back home.

I believe you are correct on the H1B salary requirements. But there may be some loopholes for such companies to drive an Amtrack train through.

You are also correct about the L1 situation. Since the L1 holder is not technically "employed" in the US, he/she gets a living allowance/stipend barely enough to keep their head above water (I think they get a little more than what would cover just rent, but just barely enough). Unfortunate aspect of the "back-home" salary with regard to India is that the INR's value vis-a-vis the USD is low.

[Arjun Shastry]

L1s get less salary.In California,one company used to give $80 a day to L1s.Companies use different 'strategy' now!They call L1s on 1-2 months to USA and depending on who is 'best'they file for H1-B for those guys.

[Iman Shudras]

What do you mean by the tick marks around 'best'?

By US law/practice if an employee survives 30 days there is a upgrading in status as far as firing. By US law/practice if an employee survives 90 days there is another upgrading in status as far as firing.

The L1 now has to survive the L1 weedout and then 6 years of probation as H1-B.

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
I've been in this country for about 15 years now and have yet to see a case of any H1B visa holder getting thrown out after the 6-year persiod. Everyone that I'd known have all gone on to getting their permanent residency. I'm not saying that there isn't a single case of someone having had to leave because of the expiration on one's H1; just that this is not the norm. Please don't mention the post-9/11 situation. 9/11 was/is not the norm.

Almost every H1 holder I know has returned to India after the 6 year period or before that. Most of them returned because they were not interested in staying any longer or due to family ties, others returned because their employer would not file for their premanent residency.

[Iman Shudras]

One the same page as the H1-B story Shell and The Economist are advertising an essay contest! IMO the topic looks like the fallacy of limited options..


This year's competition poses the question: Import workers or export jobs? Should developing nations be allowed to 'poach' skilled professional labour from countries who have helped pay for this expertise? Or is the influx of immigrants, whether skilled or unskilled, a positive force, bringing either expertise or ambition and hard work to the host nation?

It used to be the case that most immigration/emigration was of unskilled labour in the manufacturing sector; however, now the same applies to people in higher-paid technical, professional and service jobs too. In light of this, should developed countries open their borders to migrant workers? Or can they allow jobs to be outsourced to low wage countries?

Is it right that some poor countries suffer the loss of skilled workers, such as nurses who come to the richer countries, seeking a better life, leaving gaping skills holes in their country of origin?

What of the accusation of 'brain drain', where successful developing countries are accused of poaching skilled professionals from other countries? Is this fair? If not, what could be done to discourage it?

How are countries with highly developed social welfare systems coping with increases in immigration, given that migrants may work for lower wages, but they cannot be denied the same employment rights as native workers?

The notion of a fluid employment market where workers are free to follow jobs often tends to inspire fear. But is the fear justified? Does it mask the benefits and possibilities? Should countries give more thought to the "skills" and "needs" of their people?

The history of the movement of people and populations shows how dynamically immigrants can change or benefit host countries. But when and how does it go wrong? Is it a question of balance? Or (and) of matching skills and needs?

The debate on movement of people ranges from the rational to the emotional. What clarity can you contribute to mankind's choices over the freedom to move? What may it mean for the way we work? What may it mean for our sense of place, of residence, of identity and of local and global belonging?

[Kishore Dandu]

Well I live in Dallas.

I changed jobs recently, and almost all the employers who were hiring required atleast a green card(they simply don't want to sponsor anybody for the time being and they have enough supply of gc holders or citizens with decent experience and skills).

In Dallas, verizon is the only exception, that too they don't hire h1s directly, they get people as contractors through contracting firms.(and make them work insane hours and pay for only 40 hours a week, but that is a different story anyways)

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


Almost every H1 holder I know has returned to India after the 6 year period or before that. Most of them returned because they were not interested in staying any longer or due to family ties, others returned because their employer would not file for their premanent residency.

That is surprising. I have worked in the dallas area for almost 10 years. I have seen some one returing to India sporadically(may be in 5% cases). Could be that I am loosing touch with new graduates and new guys those are coming here on H1, sure the job market is tough for them.

[Arjun Shastry]

To some H1-Bs with whom I talk regularly,they are reluctant to return to India despite more opportunities here.Almost everybody is interested in getting permenent residentship in USA.All of them won't get so some are looking for Canada as a option too before their H1-B expires.Even today,when candidates are interviewed,common question at the end of interview is 'Will I get an opportunity to go outside India?"

[Bansilal Haudakari]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Well I live in Dallas.

I changed jobs recently, and almost all the employers who were hiring required atleast a green card(they simply don't want to sponsor anybody for the time being and they have enough supply of gc holders or citizens with decent experience and skills).

In Dallas, verizon is the only exception, that too they don't hire h1s directly, they get people as contractors through contracting firms.(and make them work insane hours and pay for only 40 hours a week, but that is a different story anyways)