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Arjun Shastry
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How is IT situation in China?IT related jobs are increasing in China according to many people.
1)How much the Software Engineer/Programmer earns in Shanghai/Hong Kong/Beijing?
2)What kind of work is done by IT companies in China?
3)How is the life in general in cities in China?
Thanks
 
Vijay Srikanth
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Hi Arjun
Do you know of any way to apply for jobs in China.

Vijay - Chennai
 
Arjun Shastry
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Hi,
I searched for a long time on web for China related jobs.but did not find anything other than 2/3 China related magazines.
Any Chinese Rancher here?
 
ming wu
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hi,here is a chinese rancher :-) but i am study in Canada, not sure about chinese IT Job market, But I am sure you will earn less than work in north american. some of my high school friends work for $1000 US dollar a month, that's already a very high income they consider. but the cost of living is low even in Beijing/ShangHai those major cities. Donot konw about Hongkong, cause HongKong's cost of living will be higher, similar to North American large cities like toronto, new york.

you can try contact those large international Corp's china branch, usually they hire people oversee. But again I am not sure. I will tell you more when I seek a job go back home
 
Arjun Shastry
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{
some of my high school friends work for $1000 US dollar a month, that's already a very high income they consider.
}
Thats almost similar to Indian ones.Was this salary for 4/5 years of experience or for fresh grad?If its for Fresh grad to 2/3 years of exp,then its definitely good.I am looking for more of good international experience than just money.
From what I know,knowing Chinese/Mandarin is necessary to get a job in China.Is that true?
 
ming wu
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if you can speek chinese, that would be an advantage, also I found there are more than enough programmer/developers in china right now,,unless you have a lot experience already, i think china is not a good place to looking for international experience, i guess north american is a good place

just my opinon, do not take it seriously
 
Rajan Chinna
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Hi Arjun

Ming is rite, i feel the salaries r good in india than china. And also language will be a big problem...i think its very difficult to manage with english....if u r vegetarian than gone case....u have to cook ur food.

I really don't know how to get a job in china directly....i think indian big companies already setup the business may be u can try from that source.

If u r interested for international experience u may try singapore/malaysia which is just 3.5 hrs journey from india, here u can manage easily with english and u feel as though u stay in india.
 
Arjun Shastry
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IMO,Chinese IT companies are more into Telecom/Wireless area than Business App. development.There are CMM level 5 companies too in China.But getting a job in any metro like HK,Shanghi,Beijing I think should not be very difficult.Yes,Chinese companies seem to offer almost same or less salary than Indian counterpart.
 
Arjun Shastry
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Finding any Chinese site on a web is like finding a 15 digit prime number
It seems non IT technical people in China earn almost same as in India
Lot of outsourcing is going on in China too.
 
peter wooster
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Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Finding any Chinese site on a web is like finding a 15 digit prime number
It seems non IT technical people in China earn almost same as in India
Lot of outsourcing is going on in China too.


I think you are way better off in Bangalore. The situation in China can't hold, the system is a distorted version of a Marxist Leninist, centrally directed economy with capitalism grafted on top. I've read articles about the new Chinese elite buying $500,000 houses in the suburbs of Shanghai, one of the pictures showed the little palace with a big BMW in front and the workers delivering building materials with hand carts and bicycles. There are many millions of people who were brought up on Marx and Mao, they have no democratic rights, I predict another revolution, probably very messy, followed by a breakup that will make Yugoslavia look like a picnic. To those who don't believe me, read your history. Most Chinese dynasties have ended this way, and this is the last days of the Maoist dynasty.

India has much more potential, English is the default language of computing and the Lingua Franca of India. India also has a functioning democratic parliamentary system. The processes to deal with the increase in wealth of the new middle class are in place.
 
Bruce Sheng
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Want to work as a programmer in China?

add me mxsheng@hotmail.com to your msn.
 
danny liu
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Arjun,

If you are experienced progrmmer and speak decent english, you can find a very good offer in big companies in China. Usually, the workers in these companies use fluent Englisn and the payment is enough for an enjoyable life in those cities.

peter wooster, your word is disgusting and full of "cold war" thoughts. I guess you never been to China or have a close friend from China.This is an
IT forum not a political forum. Stop it.

Dan
 
Bobby D.
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Check out http://www.escapeartist.com/jobs/overseas1.htm as a decent resource for jobs overseas. There are a few good links there, but expect to spend some time sifting through them.
 
Warren Dew
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peter wooster:

I've read articles about the new Chinese elite buying $500,000 houses in the suburbs of Shanghai, one of the pictures showed the little palace with a big BMW in front and the workers delivering building materials with hand carts and bicycles.

You might keep in mind that many of those "new Chinese elite" got their start by buying a hand cart or bicycle and working really hard. There's a lot of economic upward mobility right now in China.

India has much more potential, English is the default language of computing and the Lingua Franca of India. India also has a functioning democratic parliamentary system. The processes to deal with the increase in wealth of the new middle class are in place.

Hm ... the Indian election thread from a while back seemed to indicate that the process in place there might not be perfect.

Me, I'd prefer China. They've got a couple millenia of tradition of neoconfucian meritocratic government which seems to be reestablishing itself, which I consider the best form of government in history. I'd consider moving there if my Chinese were fluent.

By the way, three of the last four Chinese dynasties fell primarily to foreign influences, specifically the Mongols, the Manchus, and the West.
 
peter wooster
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Originally posted by danny liu:
peter wooster, your word is disgusting and full of "cold war" thoughts. I guess you never been to China or have a close friend from China.This is an
IT forum not a political forum. Stop it.

Dan


You did not address any of the points I made about the stability of the present Chinese regime. You resorted to a common tactic of those who cannot address the facts, ie. the Ad Hominem argument. "Because I haven't been to China, nor have I any Chinese friends, I'm basing my comments on 'Cold War' thinking". To start with, you do not know my background, and you have obviously not considered what I wrote. (I know this is an ad hominem argument and you deserve it). You simply reacted to it without thought.
 
peter wooster
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by Warren Dew:
You might keep in mind that many of those "new Chinese elite" got their start by buying a hand cart or bicycle and working really hard. There's a lot of economic upward mobility right now in China.

I suspect most of that elite got there courtesy of political connections, just like everywhere else in the world. Actually that couple in the paper with the little mansion in suburban Shanghai were returning emmigrant real estate developers. They never had any experience with hand carts.

Hm ... the Indian election thread from a while back seemed to indicate that the process in place there might not be perfect.

Nothing's perfect, tomorrows vote in the US will probably be far from the best, but as WC said "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried"

Me, I'd prefer China. They've got a couple millenia of tradition of neoconfucian meritocratic government which seems to be reestablishing itself, which I consider the best form of government in history. I'd consider moving there if my Chinese were fluent.

That is true, the meritocracy is returning, but will the 100's of millions brought up on Maoism accept that when they see no benifit.

By the way, three of the last four Chinese dynasties fell primarily to foreign influences, specifically the Mongols, the Manchus, and the West.

I'm not certain how it will end, but this looks like the last years of a dynasty, and isn't the influence of Walmart looming large this time?
 
danny liu
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peter wooster,

I wonder how you can predict china's future even you haven't been to china
and got a deep understanding of chinese history, culture and government.
Do you think you are some sort of genius?

Let me answer your question.

The situation in China can't hold, the system is a distorted version of a Marxist Leninist, centrally directed economy with capitalism grafted on top.

The situation in China continues to hold during the last 20 years. And the economic growth is at least 10% annually. Can a distorted government do that?

I've read articles about the new Chinese elite buying $500,000 houses in the suburbs of Shanghai, one of the pictures showed the little palace with a big BMW in front and the workers delivering building materials with hand carts and bicycles.

The same thing happens everywhere, in New York, London. 10% people own 70% assets in the States.

I predict another revolution, probably very messy, followed by a breakup that will make Yugoslavia look like a picnic. To those who don't believe me, read your history. Most Chinese dynasties have ended this way, and this is the last days of the Maoist dynasty.

You are dreaming. That again proves you know nothing about china and think you were. When Bush started the Iraq war, he thought he could finish it in 1-2 months. What is the result?

Dan
 
peter wooster
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Originally posted by danny liu:

I wonder how you can predict china's future even you haven't been to china
and got a deep understanding of chinese history, culture and government.
Do you think you are some sort of genius?


More ad hominem BS.

Let me answer your question.
The situation in China continues to hold during the last 20 years. And the economic growth is at least 10% annually. Can a distorted government do that?


Nothing can hold to a 10% growth for ever, what goes up must come down, when it does things get unpleasant. During that 20 years there were a few unfortunate incidents, such as the events of June 4 1989.

The same thing happens everywhere, in New York, London. 10% people own 70% assets in the States.

This is true although your numbers for the US are not substaciated and probably a long way off the numbers for China. Do you know what those are? Do you have documentation? Note, no students have been killed for demonstrating in America since 1970.

You are dreaming. That again proves you know nothing about china and think you were. When Bush started the Iraq war, he thought he could finish it in 1-2 months. What is the result?

Even more ad hominem BS. You seem very attached to the current Chinese system, are you living in China and milking the labour of your countrymen, or are you safely living in America? Years ago the term "comprador bourgoisie" was used to describe such people. They were universally reviled in Mao's China. Has everyone forgotten "the great leader", or are they all exiled to the countrside?
 
Warren Dew
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peter wooster:

To start with, you do not know my background, and you have obviously not considered what I wrote.

Okay, I'm curious ... when were you last in China? I visited earlier this year.

For what it's worth, when I visited Peking, it seemed like as many people were driving automobiles as bicycles, with about as many using buses and taxis.

Nothing's perfect, tomorrows vote in the US will probably be far from the best, but as WC said "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried"

A quote to be expected from the late Mr. Churchill, who got a very powerful job courtesy of the democratic system.

That is true, the meritocracy is returning, but will the 100's of millions brought up on Maoism accept that when they see no benifit.

I believe they will. The 100 or 200 million brought up on Maoism are greatly outnumbered by the younger 600 or 700 million who have witnessed the tremendous economic growth driven by the freeing of the economy. As long as the older Maoists don't lose their pensions - and they don't seem to be in danger of doing so - they probably won't complain too much.

More important is sufficient vision among the leaders to encourage a return to neoconfucian ideals of public service by the most qualified.

I'm not certain how it will end, but this looks like the last years of a dynasty, and isn't the influence of Walmart looming large this time?

A dynasty comprises more than one generation; most Chinese dynasties lasted 200-300 years. Thus far, everything that has happened since the fall of the Ching (Manchu) dynasty looks like an interdynastic period to me. It might have been a dynasty if Mao's wife had succeeded in taking power, but she didn't.

As for Walmart, they seem to see China as a supplier more than as a market. China needs the jobs more anyway.

Has everyone forgotten "the great leader", or are they all exiled to the countrside?

The official Communist party line is now deemphasizing his greatness and emphasizing his fallability; in particular, they are recognizing the cultural revolution as having been a mistake for China. Mao has more support among the farmers, amongst whom he is a more legendary figure, but the farmers also realize that they may stand to benefit from a capitalist system that allows them to sell their land for development. There is even talk in some circles of moving Mao's Mausoleum from Tienanmen square ... it's to be admitted that the grey concrete of the Mausoleum doesn't really fit in with the red walls of the city and palace gates at opposite ends of the square.

Danny: Very few Americans know as much as they (we) think we know about other nations and other continents. I think we will have to learn to understand the rest of the world better in this 21st century as oceans become less of a barrier to influences for good and ill. Please be patient with us.
 
danny liu
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peter wooster,

You never answer my question directly. Using words like "More ad hominem BS." is meaningless. You draw the conclusion based on your old memory and prejudice instead of facts.

During that 20 years there were a few unfortunate incidents, such as the events of June 4 1989.

Unfortunate events are unavoidable during the democratic process. That's why china becomes more and more democratic today. The same things happen in America, such as civil war, slave liberation, Martin Luther King's death.

This is true although your numbers for the US are not substaciated and probably a long way off the numbers for China. Do you know what those are? Do you have documentation? Note, no students have been killed for demonstrating in America since 1970.

Do you have documentations of Yogoslavia, Afghannistan, Iraq? How many people have been killed since 1970? I am a little bit curious about your democracy. It merely means that you people have human rights, people from other countries should suffer?

are you living in China and milking the labour of your countrymen, or are you safely living in America?

Rude words make worse. I don't understand why living in America is safer.
America has more prisons than any other nations in the world.


Warren,

You have been to china and your words are more subjective.

Dan

[ November 03, 2004: Message edited by: danny liu ]
[ November 03, 2004: Message edited by: danny liu ]
 
Mike Gershman
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This conversation is both unprofessional and unproductive.

I was taught that it is impolite to argue politics or religion with strangers, not because these things are unimportant but because no one's mind will be changed and arguments don't lead to understanding.

People raised in different cultures have radically different ideas about the relationship between the individual and society. We all must learn to respect these differences if we're going to survive on this planet.
 
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