• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Paul Clapham
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Junilu Lacar
  • Henry Wong
Sheriffs:
  • Ron McLeod
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Tim Cooke
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Frits Walraven
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • salvin francis
  • fred rosenberger

Job Decline Numbers For The U.S.

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 41
Oracle Redhat Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/08/0533220&tid=103http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/15/0154253&threshold=4&tid=103&tid=156&tid=98&tid=8

Not exactly new, but certainly gives an idea of what is going on. The hurt wasn't over even this year during the "recovery" with a 15% decline during the first six months in the number of programmers, analysts, and support specialists. Software Engineering jobs declined 15% from 856,000 to 725,000. The article says 403,000 jobs were lost since March 2001, and that over half (206,000) were lost after November 2001 when the worst of the recession was supposedly over. A total number of 1,743,000 high-tech jobs was given, which was a 18.8% decline since 2001.

Numbers like these give credence to the theory that the jobs that have been lost were not all .com crap, but real engineering jobs at major US firms. Demand for H1-B's is still strong, but the cap (as you know) has been lowered and most companies seem less willing these days to sponsor new H1-B's.

This sucks for everyone; old farts, fresh grads (like me), H1Bs, and people just trying to get into tech from other industries.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1934
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cap on H1 is not lowered, but brought back to original per year number.

195000/year H1 quota is for a brief period(passed by congress as a temporary increase for 4 year period that expired at end of 2002).

It was 65000/year when I got mine in 1996.

Wanted to make that point across to u.
 
Rishi Ugersain Chopra
Ranch Hand
Posts: 41
Oracle Redhat Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Cap on H1 is not lowered, but brought back to original per year number.

195000/year H1 quota is for a brief period(passed by congress as a temporary increase for 4 year period that expired at end of 2002).

It was 65000/year when I got mine in 1996.

Wanted to make that point across to u.



Sure; I guess I should have been clearer in my language.
 
blacksmith
Posts: 1332
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Did you follow that link to the original article? Here's an excerpt:

The number of employed software engineers in the U.S. dropped from 856,000 in the first quarter of 2004 to 725,000 in the second quarter. Yet, the unemployment rate among software engineers dropped from 3.3 percent to 2.9 percent between the two quarters.

So if you actually believe those statistics, a software engineer only has a 2.9% chance of being unemployed in the U.S.!

Personally, I suspect that the way those statistics are defining "software engineers" is broken; I find it very hard to believe that software engineering employment in the U.S. was dropping from the first to the second quarter, but I also find it hard to believe that software engineering unemployment is as low as 2.9% yet.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 175
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Cap on H1 is not lowered, but brought back to original per year number.

195000/year H1 quota is for a brief period(passed by congress as a temporary increase for 4 year period that expired at end of 2002).

It was 65000/year when I got mine in 1996.

Wanted to make that point across to u.



problem is only 15k of it are used for students right now the rest are from forign countries.. so yeah it sucks to be a student right now because of this. The problem is that there a huge number small contracting companies abusing the regualtions getting down cheap forign labour(not all ofcourse). Ends up being a lose lose sittuation for students graduating in the US. The contracting companies add to the negative attitude towards H1Bs because they end up abusing more than INS regulations. There should be something done to stop all the abuse that is being done, gives all the legitimate forign students/workers a very bad name and takes away from the a great great oppertunity. Its a very very sad sittuation which is worsend even more by this economy.
[ October 20, 2004: Message edited by: Inuka Vincit ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 985
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So what are the correct and current job numbers for the U.S?
 
Saloon Keeper
Posts: 22111
151
Android Eclipse IDE Tomcat Server Redhat Java Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
So what are the correct and current job numbers for the U.S?



You'd think that would be a straightforward question with a straightforward answer. Unfortunately, as we've seen, there are numerous ways to gather stats and numerous ways to "spin" them.

FWIW, I don't recall seeing any campaign commercials directly rebutting the claim that in the last presidential term, more jobs have been lost than gained, but maybe I missed them.

In concrete terms in the area we hold nearest and dearest, I was in Miami this past weekend, and the Miami Herald only had 1 job posting listed under "computers" for the entire metro area, with maybe 2 or 3 system analyst job postings hidden under other headings, such as professionals (and the number of non-computer professional listings was nothing to get excited about.

But, that may simply reflect a change in where companies advertise for professional help. And it's those kinds of changes that help cloud the issue above and beyond even the pet agendas of politicians and economists.
 
Rishi Ugersain Chopra
Ranch Hand
Posts: 41
Oracle Redhat Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
So what are the correct and current job numbers for the U.S?



675,000 software engineers as of 2002 according to US Government's BLS (Bureau of Labor and Statistics); maybe more like 750,000 today.

Also of note is that software engineering jobs constitute (depending on the survey) 10-15% of all IT jobs in the US, meaning 6 million to 9 million US IT jobs total.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5093
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Did you follow that link to the original article? Here's an excerpt:

The number of employed software engineers in the U.S. dropped from 856,000 in the first quarter of 2004 to 725,000 in the second quarter. Yet, the unemployment rate among software engineers dropped from 3.3 percent to 2.9 percent between the two quarters.

So if you actually believe those statistics, a software engineer only has a 2.9% chance of being unemployed in the U.S.!

Personally, I suspect that the way those statistics are defining "software engineers" is broken; I find it very hard to believe that software engineering employment in the U.S. was dropping from the first to the second quarter, but I also find it hard to believe that software engineering unemployment is as low as 2.9% yet.



No, I do believe it is.
What is happening is that a lot of the people who loose their jobs are retraining for other sectors (insurance salesman, plumber, carpenter, driving instructor, etc.) and are thus removed from the number of unemployed software engineers.

That's why the percentage is going down despite the software sector still loosing jobs rapidly.
 
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper
Posts: 22111
151
Android Eclipse IDE Tomcat Server Redhat Java Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:


No, I do believe it is.
What is happening is that a lot of the people who loose their jobs are retraining for other sectors (insurance salesman, plumber, carpenter, driving instructor, etc.) and are thus removed from the number of unemployed software engineers.

That's why the percentage is going down despite the software sector still loosing jobs rapidly.



The last several years saw a new term coined. From the original "jobless" recovery, we got the term "worth-less" recovery. As in, you could get a job, but the pay was significantly less.

The argument has been made that many of those leaving were merely dot-com wannabes. Most of the people I know, however had been in the profession before the term dot-com had even been coined, and even though I managed myself to stay in the field, I lost about 12% + 2 years inflation in income.
 
Climb the rope! CLIMB THE ROPE! You too tiny ad:
Devious Experiments for a Truly Passive Greenhouse!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/greenhouse-1
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic